9 Preamps: Taylor 810C + K&K PWM Clips

[jamison162]

Focusrite 18i8 Direct
K&K Pure XLR
Archangel X7
Orchid DI
Fishman Aura Spectrum DI
LR Baggs PADI
Headway EDM-1
Countryman Type 85 DI
Zoom A3

All preamps were eq'd and adjusted to sound the best I could dial in, then recorded. Nothing added, tweaked or modified with the tracks.

Here's the Zoom A3 w/Reverb (be sure to listen up to 0:53+ at least: https://soundcloud.com/jamison162/zooma3reverb

Will add other links when I have time...but they should be available at the above site.

[varmonter]

Thanks for doing this.can't wit to hear the x7

[Villamarzia]

I would have expected more significant differences, actually... Some sound more alive, others more artificial, but with some EQ changes many of them might become very similar. Of course you hear differences in this samples, but once you are playing live especially with other instruments, do they really make the difference? Bottom line for me: K&K pickups are handy and sound good with many preamps but the real acoustic sounds needs a mic... Doesn't matter how good (or expensive) your preamp is... Just my subjective 20cents..

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by jamison162

Focusrite 18i8 Direct
K&K Pure XLR
Archangel X7
Orchid DI
Fishman Aura Spectrum DI
LR Baggs PADI
Headway EDM-1
Countryman Type 85 DI
Zoom A3

All preamps were eq'd and adjusted to sound the best I could dial in, then recorded. Nothing added, tweaked or modified with the tracks.

Here's the Zoom A3 w/Reverb (be sure to listen up to 0:53+ at least: https://soundcloud.com/jamison162/zooma3reverb

Will add other links when I have time...but they should be available at the above site.

Thanks for doing this. It's a good exercise to try to eliminate as many variables as possible when doing recorded shoot outs, which you have done, e.g., same guitar, same player, same room, same pickup, same tune. Of course, with pickup shoot outs you can't use the same performance for each example.

One thing I would recommend is to equalize the volumes of each sample in your DAW and republish them all. Currently, some are noticeably louder than others, and vice versa. Because they are separate takes to begin with (with the inherent difference from one performance to the next, it may not help much, but it shouldn't hurt and will mitigate another variable.

I do hear differences among the various preamps in your samples. I did a similar shoot out a few years ago with about 12 different units, most of which were different than the ones you have tested. There's a post or two about it somewhere on this forum.

[Doug Young]

Ambitious project! The problem with trying to compare preamps is that most electronics these days differ far less than our ability to perform consistently. I'd suggest, if you really want to compare the sound of the preamps that you record to a looper, and then play back the looper thru each preamp. Also match the levels exactly. I'd also set the preamps all flat. If you're tweaking the EQ on each, then what you're really comparing is your ability to dial in the same sound, which could have to do with your ear, or could be due to differences in the frequency choices of the EQ in each preamp. That's fine, if that's what you want to compare, but you have to be careful about what conclusions you draw.

Even if you do these things, there will still be variables (like the input senstitivity of each preamp), and it will still be one data point (how will each preamp sound with a different guitar, a different player, etc), that you have to decide if they matter or not.

At the opposite end of trying to be scientific about it, my real-world test for a live preamp would be something like "Can someone sitting at a table in the coffee house, with people chatting, the espresso machine going, the air-conditioning on, etc, hear the difference?"

[jamison162]

The real difference is heard live, "in person" obviously. I recorded the clips as a "courtesy", not meant to be scientific at all. My home studio setup is modest and pretty new to me. Hope this helps some members here.

Through the Focusrite, many of these sounded alike. The differences are more discernable in person through my PA. I ended up returning all except the Zoom A3 and of course I still have my PADI.

[lmacmil]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

At the opposite end of trying to be scientific about it, my real-world test for a live preamp would be something like "Can someone sitting at a table in the coffee house, with people chatting, the espresso machine going, the air-conditioning on, etc, hear the difference?"

If you take EQ out of the equation, shouldn't all preamps sound the same? If not, they are coloring the sound and that's what the tone controls are for. I'd guess 95% of the population would answer your question with a no.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by lmacmil

If you take EQ out of the equation, shouldn't all preamps sound the same? If not, they are coloring the sound and that's what the tone controls are for. I'd guess 95% of the population would answer your question with a no.

They should, but people keep insisting they sound different :-) In this test, I suspect most differences come down to differences in performance, levels, and EQ settings. To me, the main criteria for a preamp is if it has the features you need. If you need a mute, and the unit doesn't have one, it won't work for you. I generally need 2 channels with power for a mic, which rules many out, and so on. But in terms of raw sound, if they actually have a "sound", then they are doing some coloration, and I'd usually avoid that. Comparing gets challenging, tho, especially when you start changing the settings differently for each unit. But if you don't make any adjustments, then you may not discover what the unit is capable with some setting. You can't really win. Meaningful comparisons are really hard.

[lmacmil]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

To me, the main criteria for a preamp is if it has the features you need. But in terms of raw sound, if they actually have a "sound", then they are doing some coloration, and I'd usually avoid that.

I agree. The preamp circuit should be a "straight wire with gain." It should have no sound of its own (I'm referring to floor preamps, not end pin preamps that are designed around a particular transducer.)

I just got a Baggs PADI so I'm looking forward to playing with it and seeing how I can optimize the sound from my two Baggs pickups.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by lmacmil

I agree. The preamp circuit should be a "straight wire with gain." It should have no sound of its own (I'm referring to floor preamps, not end pin preamps that are designed around a particular transducer.)

I just got a Baggs PADI so I'm looking forward to playing with it and seeing how I can optimize the sound from my two Baggs pickups.

There are exceptions, of course. For example, the Zoom A3, on this list, includes modeling effects, so that's a deliberate attempt to be non-linear. But I'd view that as an effects box tacked onto a preamp, not the preamp circuit itself

[jamison162]

By the way, the modeling on the Zoom A3 (Effect 1) was turned off.

[jamison162]

Gonna bump this old thread...lots of new members since 2014.

[CASD57]

The Guitars's natural sound..Is very good... But I liked the Zoom A3 the best.. It just felt more open "Airy"