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  #31  
Old 08-24-2012, 12:16 PM
Cue Zephyr Cue Zephyr is offline
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I dabble in jazz a little bit. Still feels a bit too much 'out there', or 'too far from my bed' if you will.

I enjoy the complexity of jazz chord progressions but find it still too daunting to learn to build melody on it.

I'm just learning my jazz chords and standards at the moment, and I'm liking it. If it sticks, I'll go on with it. If not, I'll move on.

I hope it sticks, I'm sure it'll make me a better musician and player.

To mr. beaumont - thanks for your links, checking 'em out right now!
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  #32  
Old 08-24-2012, 01:01 PM
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I'm enjoying the conversation folks. I'm wondering if we have any gypsy jazz players here that could talk about the differences between the django tradition and other jazz styles.

James
  #33  
Old 08-24-2012, 01:29 PM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is offline
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I play several kinds of jazz, including bop styles and Django's music.

Gypsy jazz tends to be very specific rhythmically and requires a specific right hand technique to make those guitars really sing. It tends to be less harmonically adventurous in both the improv and the accompanyment than like bop or anything post bop. Gypsy jazz's canon has some very specific licks as well.

In gypsy jazz as well, the i minor chord tends to be a m6.

gypsy jazz also favors diminshed and harmonic minor sounds on the V, whereas bop and what comes after might be more inclined to use melodic minor sounds. mm is not commonly used in the gypsy stuff.
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  #34  
Old 08-24-2012, 09:12 PM
woa_horsey woa_horsey is offline
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I'm a big Gypsy jazz fan. The problem for many decades was that people were just copying Django, but in the 80s we started hearing guys who were building on what he did and then taking it to different places. There are several now who are in my opinion well ahead of Django in terms of technique and improvisational skills. Tchavolo Schmitt is the man as far as I'm concerned. When he came on the scene he just changed everything. Then he suddenly disappeared for about ten years, and I never did find out what happened to him. I've often wondered if he might have spent some time in prison or something. Anyway, eventually one day there he was back and playing better than ever.

Tchavolo Schmitt
  #35  
Old 08-25-2012, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgb View Post
I moved on after 10 minutes.

When I hear modern jazz I usually want to throw up.
It took me about 5 minutes. I've always thought of jazz as a disorganized mess posing as serious music. No doubt someone will blast me now, saying that I just don't "get it". They'd be right...I don't get it...and that's the whole problem with it. It's all about the musicians getting themselves off, and if an audience doesn't get it...well...they're just unsophisticated boobs.
  #36  
Old 08-25-2012, 10:29 AM
Howard Klepper Howard Klepper is offline
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[double post]
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  #37  
Old 08-25-2012, 10:32 AM
Howard Klepper Howard Klepper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweiss View Post
It took me about 5 minutes. I've always thought of jazz as a disorganized mess posing as serious music. No doubt someone will blast me now, saying that I just don't "get it". They'd be right...I don't get it...and that's the whole problem with it. It's all about the musicians getting themselves off, and if an audience doesn't get it...well...they're just unsophisticated boobs.
Thanks for sharing. I'm sure what the OP really wanted to know (by posting on the PLAY forum) is how you and dgb feel about the music.

Where did you find an audience being subjected to jazz against their will?
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Last edited by Howard Klepper; 08-25-2012 at 10:41 AM.
  #38  
Old 08-25-2012, 10:33 AM
woa_horsey woa_horsey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweiss View Post
It took me about 5 minutes. I've always thought of jazz as a disorganized mess posing as serious music. No doubt someone will blast me now, saying that I just don't "get it". They'd be right...I don't get it...and that's the whole problem with it. It's all about the musicians getting themselves off, and if an audience doesn't get it...well...they're just unsophisticated boobs.
It's only a "disorganized mess" when it's played poorly. A good improvisor's solos will sound composed. Watch that video of Tchavolo Schmitt I left. I would challenge you to sit down an "compose" a solo that's better.
  #39  
Old 08-25-2012, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Klepper View Post
Thanks for sharing. I'm sure what the OP really wanted to know (by posting on the PLAY forum) is how you and dgb feel about the music.

The title of the thread is " jazz players: help- i don't speak your language". The point of my post is that most people don't understand, let alone speak the "language " of jazz. Also...and this is only my opinion...I think many musicians won't admit to not understanding jazz for fear of seeming unsophisticated.

Where did you find an audience being subjected to jazz against their will?
Let me quickly re-read my post...nope...didn't say they were. But...sales of jazz music and attendance at jazz concerts tends to be on the small side, no?
  #40  
Old 08-25-2012, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by woa_horsey View Post
It's only a "disorganized mess" when it's played poorly. A good improvisor's solos will sound composed. Watch that video of Tchavolo Schmitt I left. I would challenge you to sit down an "compose" a solo that's better.
I once bought a John Coltrane CD from a bargain bin, thinking that I should give it a listen...after all Coltrane is a jazz giant...and maybe I'd find something in it I'd like. Wrong. What I heard was a guy playing every note he knew in every "song". His command of the instrument was obvious, but what he played was musical gibberish. Every now and then Coltrane and the small combo he was playing with would seem to all wander in from the woods at the same time and actually play together somewhat...but never for long. After a few bars they would all drift away...each back into his own little world.
  #41  
Old 08-25-2012, 11:46 AM
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Well, Mr.Sweiss, I guess, everybody has an opinion.
If can you find any 'disorganized mess' in the examples below, please, point them out.
Example 1
Example 2
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  #42  
Old 08-25-2012, 12:12 PM
Howard Klepper Howard Klepper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweiss View Post
I once bought a John Coltrane CD from a bargain bin, thinking that I should give it a listen...after all Coltrane is a jazz giant...and maybe I'd find something in it I'd like. Wrong. What I heard was a guy playing every note he knew in every "song". His command of the instrument was obvious, but what he played was musical gibberish. Every now and then Coltrane and the small combo he was playing with would seem to all wander in from the woods at the same time and actually play together somewhat...but never for long. After a few bars they would all drift away...each back into his own little world.

The OP posted under "PLAY" and asked for help with improvising jazz. But you took it to be about how YOU react to the music. Thanks again for sharing your impressions.
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  #43  
Old 08-25-2012, 12:27 PM
woa_horsey woa_horsey is offline
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Quote:
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I once bought a John Coltrane CD from a bargain bin, thinking that I should give it a listen...
Which has what to do with what I said? The simple fact is that some people can improvise better than most people could compose in a month of trying.
  #44  
Old 08-25-2012, 01:08 PM
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Which has what to do with what I said?
You said..."It's only a "disorganized mess" when it's played poorly." That's what I was commenting on. My point in mentioning Coltrane was that virtuosity does not necessarily result in interesting music.
  #45  
Old 08-25-2012, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
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The OP posted under "PLAY" and asked for help with improvising jazz. But you took it to be about how YOU react to the music. Thanks again for sharing your impressions.
You're quite welcome, Howard. Always willing to share an opinion.
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