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  #16  
Old 11-13-2006, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Working Dog View Post
It's a fallacy. Especially when CNC machines are doing all the work. A $1000 Asian is as good as a $1500 American. If you want to pay $100's more for a made in USA lable go ahead.

I could not disagree more............
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  #17  
Old 11-13-2006, 01:56 PM
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It's a general scenario, with many exceptions of course. US people will think so and non-US people will not.
It's actually a cultural thing. Guitar music is a tradition of America, but not Asian countries; so they lack of the spirit going into the guitar. And luthiery is not a high-margin business with tons of hardwork, so most people wouldn't do it for living unless they have a passion. It makes no sense to relate consumer electronic products with handbuilt stuff. They are day and night difference. Digital products are very easy to copy and reproduce.
Asian guitars are catching up, but still a long way to reach the same craftsmanship.
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  #18  
Old 11-13-2006, 02:00 PM
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The history of Asian industrialization is just repeating itself. Started in Japan, then Korea, now China. They start out producing cheap crap, then gradually improve quality when workers/factories become more sophisticated. Gradually, American buyers start to realize quality is available at cheaper prices because of the cheaper labor. This is what's happening with guitars in China now....Blueridge, for one, is making good quality instruments. American factories -- which I support because I think Americans need living wage jobs -- must be trembling at the prospects.
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  #19  
Old 11-13-2006, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Working Dog View Post
It's a fallacy. Especially when CNC machines are doing all the work. A $1000 Asian is as good as a $1500 American. If you want to pay $100's more for a made in USA lable go ahead.
This is rather simplified generalization. The quality of product is not necessarily proportional to the workers' salary. It's not the matter who is better. Asian simply lacks of sufficient knowledge and expertise in luthiery. I'm not saying they don't have any skill; but the depth is incomparable.
It's also a matter of interest. Very few Asian people are interested in luthiery in the past because there is no such business in the tradition and it's not highly remarked.
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  #20  
Old 11-13-2006, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Fred View Post
Blueridge, for one, is making good quality instruments.
I don't think Blueridge can have the quality of Taylor. At least at this moment being.
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  #21  
Old 11-13-2006, 02:07 PM
Kabalan Kabalan is offline
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best guitar in the world?
i think the best guitar is the one you work together with a luthier, i enjoyed
verry much the process and construction of my 3 guitars by mexican great
luthier fructuoso zalapa.
what i can say, american luthiers are always looking for new concepts; rick turner, klein, wetcher, carlson,humpry, with out forget the canadian linda
manzer
in classicals the australian greg smallman
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  #22  
Old 11-13-2006, 02:20 PM
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I think the auto industry is a good history lesson for US guitar makers.
Remember when the first Honda's and Toyotas hit the US in the '70's? They were made for the low end of the market and were initially regarded as cr*p by many people. Remember when the phrase "made in Japan" was synonymous with cheap junk? We all know what has happened since then.

The Asian guitar makers will move upmarket just like the the Japanese auto and electronics makers have and they will then have a selling proposition based on quality rather than price.

The Chinese are an especially interesting case as the one thing they are not short of is low cost labour. A great American design copied and reproduced to the nth degree by low cost labour with an impetus to continually learn and improve quality represents a major threat to US guitar makers in coming years. The brands names will continue to give US makers some protection for a while yet but this may diminish over time as the Asians build their own brands. Ibanez for example is a pretty good example of an Asian brand that is well regarded next to US brands.

This increased competition can only be a good thing as far as us buyers are concerned . . .

Aaron
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  #23  
Old 11-13-2006, 03:10 PM
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Gee...........all mine are made in Canada.
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  #24  
Old 11-13-2006, 03:17 PM
Doubleneck Doubleneck is offline
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Its not about quality its about innovation. American guitars innovated great changes to the instrument: be that Gibson, Martin, Taylor, Fender. Ovation. With few exceptions you don't see the innovation overseas you just see manufacturing quality. I think this continues with examples being Rainsong and CA guitars, Taylor T5, etc.
Steve
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  #25  
Old 11-13-2006, 03:20 PM
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I still think Asian Cars if you want to persue that comparison are still lacking in the soul area.

A few German cars have it , I can't think of any Asian
cars, but most certainly most pre-asian =invasion cars
have it made in American. When you see muscle cars go
on auction for six figures that have been restored to perfection, you gotta wonder, Where are the Asian cars.
Old Asian cars are just that , Old cars. The body parts sag
and fall off the paint disappears, and I don't see anyone
restoring them.

I think America gets a bum rap on quality . We just the
imports have an unfair advantage with cheap labor and should have taxed them out of the advantage. It has been
a very costly mistake.
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  #26  
Old 11-13-2006, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doubleneck View Post
Its not about quality its about innovation. American guitars innovated great changes to the instrument: be that Gibson, Martin, Taylor, Fender. Ovation. With few exceptions you don't see the innovation overseas you just see manufacturing quality. I think this continues with examples being Rainsong and CA guitars, Taylor T5, etc.
Steve
Good point. In traditional Asian culture/education innovation was not encouraged. Anything different from the norm will not get a good remark. So they are very good at learning and imitation.
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  #27  
Old 11-13-2006, 03:40 PM
smorgdonkey smorgdonkey is offline
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Well...first of all I will clarify that my comments apply to electric guitars only...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Turner View Post
Probably because the whole point of import guitars has been to make them cheaply. Thus the cheapness is built into the very design, and it's fairly obvious. The edges on the metal parts are cruder, the plating isn't as good, the finishes are thicker, the wood is boring, the interior work is sloppier, the woods are all substitutes, etc.
I completely disagree with the above comment...for the most part the money saved is on WAGES alone. The "very design" is often an identical copy of the 'vintage and/or handmade U.S.A. model'. The woods being "substitutes" is only true for the cheapest manufacturers and as far as the metal parts comments...if they can't match the quality THEY IMPORT the parts. Some of the Japanese guitars are the best made guitars in the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Turner View Post
And you know what else? US-made guitars just have a better resale value than guitars made just about anywhere else in the world except perhaps those made by the top builders in Spain, Germany, or England. It's all about perceived value.
...and unless you are planning on selling it-resale value doesn't matter.

One more time...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Turner View Post
It's all about perceived value.
...the U.S.A. models simply can't make that claim anymore...anyone who believes it is fooling themselves.
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  #28  
Old 11-13-2006, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ayavner View Post
you're not going to believe this..... Bed Bath and Beyond has started selling guitars... WTF? I picked one up while my wife was looking at comforter sets, and it was truly, truly aweful... and the worst part is it was by some offshoot of Gibson, so they get to use that name. Bleh!

talk about "beyond"....

Best Buy Electronics is now selling the Fender P.O.S. line. ( Piece of ...). Both acoustic and electric. What???????

Last edited by cotten; 11-15-2006 at 12:09 AM.
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  #29  
Old 11-13-2006, 03:56 PM
mishmannah mishmannah is offline
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What can I say about my Korean made Avalon Silver?

Well for a start, I can't say it's badly made, at all...

I suppose the design element being still very much in the control of Avalon's luthiers have a bearing (original as opposed to a copy), but the selection of woods for bindings/purflings/top back and sides etc are staggeringly good.

The intonation is the best I have heard in a guitar, and I have played a fair few, and this guitar I feel I can "trust" when playing it.

There is no roughness in the frets, no glue hobs anywhere to be seen in the box, no evidence that this was a rush job in an Asian sweat factory.

yeah, I'm puzzled too.
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  #30  
Old 11-13-2006, 04:01 PM
smorgdonkey smorgdonkey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mishmannah View Post
What can I say about my Korean made Avalon Silver?
...lots of good stuff...
yeah, I'm puzzled too.
Indeed...I too was surprised when I got my first Korean made guitar...now I have 7 of them...
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