Does low action affect sound volume?

[Lake]

Originally Posted by steverok

In my opinion, jumbos are meant to be powerful, strumming guitars, with higher action. People play my jumbo and say "whoah, the action is pretty high". Well - guess what, it's supposed to be like that, and I love it ! Then I strum an open E chord and blow them out of the room

When you say higher action you mean 3 mm, 4mm or more!?

[GSMC Bob]

Originally Posted by WorksInTheory

Well looks like I either need to get a new saddle for my Martin SPJC16RE or used medium strings. Or as TBMan said just amplify.

This one doesn't seem like a jumbo like a Guild or a Gibson is a jumbo.

Martin's jumbos aren't true jumbos in the sense that Guild, Gibson, Taylor jumbos are 17" across the lower bout and Martin is 16". A Martin jumbo is more similar in size to a Taylor x14 or a mini-jumbo from other makers. However, I had a Martin JC-16RGTE that sounded quite nice and balanced. It was an all-around great guitar, but definitely not a big, bold, classic jumbo.

[ljguitar]

Hi WIT...
Everything we do to our guitars causes something else (the old ''for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction'' thing...). That doesn't make it bad. In studio I've recorded guitars where the action is tweaked lower, and it doesn't show up on the recordings as a tone shift.

One of the best tests is to have someone who plays in a style similar to you play your guitar for you.

Sit across the room and listen to hear what others hear when you play.

My guitars are set up with low action and play like butter. They sound great. For me the object is great action and sounding good, and the audience will adjust to my volume. I could raise the action and it might give me a bit more volume, but it would take away from my dexterity, which is a crucial part of my style.

At our guitar society this week about 30 people showed up in a room that was about 20 X 40 feet fully carpeted and heavily draped, and nobody had issues hearing anyone else.

[Herb Hunter]

The amplitude of a medium gauge string's vibration is less than that of a light gauge string so one can have lower action with medium gauge strings than with light gauge strings before the onset of string buzz.

Each individual has to decide for himself the best string height for his playing, within the limits imposed by the guitar, regardless of what size or shape of guitar one chooses.

All the talk about volume reminds me of how exasperating it is to play with someone who thinks he has to out strum Richie Havens at every opportunity. The last time I had the opportunity to play with other guitarists, more than 2 years ago, one rhythm player was whipping the strings of a satin finish Taylor loud enough to drown me, two other guitars and the singer. I pointed out that I couldn't hear myself but he kept on flailing away. There was no point in playing any fills that couldn't be heard, no need for another strummer so I left after the third song. I had rely enjoyed playing with others for a change until the thrashing strummer joined in.

[Herb Hunter]

Tim Mcknight, does the break angle really have a significant effect on volume?

[WorksInTheory]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

All the talk about volume reminds me of how exasperating it is to play with someone who thinks he has to out strum Richie Havens a

I completely agree. It's those that make so much sound but with such effortless grace that I can just sit and watch for ever. Even Jack Johnson who is so rhythmic and syncopated in his music has such a subtle strum that yields volumes of rhythm. You reminded me of a friend who is a ham and thinks he is a rock god or wishes he was and makes chords like he's gripping on to dear life and strums as if he's doing karate fast motion. And he likes to play hard and loud and is quite boisterous in his performance. Suffice it to say one time I tried to show him a little something about acoustic guitars and let him play one and he immediately put a couple nice pick marks across my guitar... which shows his inconsideration too... wait I did say he was a friend right?

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by TBman

Everything is easier with low tension.

Except fretted note intonation.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by ship of fools

So Larry are all your guitars set to the same height for the action or do you use different settings for each of your guitars...

Hi SoF...
They are near identical. I had my luthier (Michael Bashkin) set them up for me, and in the case of my main two, they wear .011 sting sets and the other two wear .012s.

When a person grabs one of my guitars, the action is going to be consistent even if they grab another 5 minutes later.

[Stills41]

Well how big a boy are you anyway? Maybe you just aint wacking it hard enough. Just kidding, I have encountered the same problem and I found that if you change up a gauge (.12-.13) it seemed to help alot. Plus, it helped to develope my hand strength. Hope this helps.

[BigRed51]

It has been my experience that every guitar has an action "sweet spot." A height where it sounds the best, it doesn't buzz, it's easy on the fingers, and the intonation is as good as it gets. In addition, your playing style makes a big difference in what you can get away with.

Now a good luthier can adjust some of those features with good results. For example, someone whose playing is limited to fingerstyle can get away with much lower action than I can, as a bluegrass flatpicker. For that person, buzz is not nearly as big an issue, and chances are he will prefer a much lower action. Well the action can be set lower, and the intonation matched to it, and chances are that the owner would be happy, yet for me, the guitar would be virtually unplayable.

It is very easy to find the effects of raising action on your guitar ... but a little more involved to explore lowering the action. My first experience tinkering with raising action was with a '72 Ovation Balladeer. When fingerpciking, I bragged about the action being so low and not buzzing, but when I decided to take up flatpicking, it just didn't work. I called Ovation tech support (twenty some years after buying the guitar used) and they sent me a saddle blank and a bag full of 1/64 and 1/32 shims to play with. When I raised the saddle 1/16", the buzz went away, and the tone and projection improved dramatically when flatpicking ... but the interesting thing was that there was no noticeable difference in tone when fingerpicking.

[Victory Pete]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

Tim Mcknight, does the break angle really have a significant effect on volume?

I cant speak for him but I have done an experiment and found that the break angle does not effect volume. It does have an effect on the tone though as you pick the string. A high angle will give you more treble and clarity. What makes more volume is the height of the string off of the guitars top. The saddle and bridge have more leverage and torque. Increasing the saddle height will also increase the break angle. For years I have thought it was the break angle until it was explained here on this Forum.

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=448701

[Victory Pete]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

The amplitude of a medium gauge string's vibration is less than that of a light gauge string so one can have lower action with medium gauge strings than with light gauge strings before the onset of string buzz.

Each individual has to decide for himself the best string height for his playing, within the limits imposed by the guitar, regardless of what size or shape of guitar one chooses.

I never realized this but it does make sense, I like Mediums and a very straight neck. I keep my low E at about .105" and the action for opens cords is fantastically low and I get no buzzing.

[Realbluesman]

I usually try not to generalize, but with an acoustic guitar, everything affects everything. Plain and simple. It's a law. Live with it.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by Victory Pete

I cant speak for him but I have done an experiment and found that the break angle does not effect volume. It does have an effect on the tone though as you pick the string. A high angle will give you more treble and clarity. What makes more volume is the height of the string off of the guitars top. The saddle and bridge have more leverage and torque. Increasing the saddle height will also increase the break angle. For years I have thought it was the break angle until it was explained here on this Forum.

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=448701

Al never said "height off the guitar top." Looks like he was talking about the saddle.

[Victory Pete]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

Al never said "height off the guitar top." Looks like he was talking about the saddle.

The strings sit on the saddle, so it is one in the same.