New Nylon electric

[ceciltguitar]

Interesting how different each guitarist's preferred guitar design parameters can be!

Evan and I both play nylon string guitar, yet we thrive with opposite type of necks:

fretboard - flat vs radiused
neck - thin vs thick
nut length - longer vs shorter

Good thing that Alistair can accommodate both of us!

Best regards,
Tom

[Tom2]

Pain is not okay, so this is important. Thin necks hurt me too. Please sort this out before proceeding with the build.

Gibson solid body electric guitars are heavy, and after playing standing up with a strap for many years, my back and left shoulder had enough. I switched to a sitting position with the guitar on my lap, but I didn't pay attention to the resultant change in wrist angle. I play a lot, hours per day every day, and tension began building up in my muscles and tendons so slowly that I didn't notice it.

Until, one morning, the muscles in my left forearm spasmed so severely that my wrist was locked at a 90 degree angle, and it took me five days to straighten it out. I stopped playing immediately and just waited until all of the tension and pain was 100% gone. It took a full year.

Being the precision guy that I am, I used that year to study thumb position and wrist angle by holding the guitar in various positions, without playing it, while noticing which positions caused pain and which positions didn't. See, I actually do know a thing or two about trial and error.

From an engineering perspective, I could talk about torque, tangents, and vectors, but I'm guessing that's not what you are looking for. So let's take this one step at a time, and we can figure it out very quickly.

Classical guitar necks are flat and thin, and classical guitarists can play for a lifetime without issues. This is because the classical posture forces the player's thumb to be in the center of the neck, directly opposite the force being applied by the fingers, in a way that allows the wrist to be both straight and relaxed.

A thin C profile is almost flat in the center, so anyone who regularly plays with the thumb in the center of the neck would not have pain issues with a thin C. Since you do have pain, my guess is that you don't regularly play with your thumb in the center of the neck. Am I correct?

Where is your thumb typically, and what part of the thumb is in strongest contact with the neck? Also, what is your wrist angle? Is it straight, does it bend forward so the palm of your hand faces your forearm, or does it bend back so the palm of your hand faces away from your forearm?

This information will reveal the most supportive neck profile for your style of play.

Tom2;

Thank you. I am relying on Alistair to figure out the neck profile that fits my 1 7/8" nut width, radius fret board, and my 1" neck thickness desire (in a somewhat C configuration).

I suppose I should pay more attention. But I am getting really old and busy on a number of fronts. I am leaving the task of further precision to you. I really like your precise approach to guitar development and look forward to your ultimate design.

[Tom2]

A 1" thickness with a 1 7/8" width is quite an unusual combination.

If the thickness was exactly half the width, in this case 15/16", the profile would be a perfect semi-circle, or a baseball bat cut right down the middle. The vast majority of necks have a thickness that is less than half its width. Your configuration has a thickness that is greater than half the width. This is nothing like the N2, and is unlike anything I have ever played. It's called a boat.

For a 1 7/8" nut width, a 7/8" thickness at the nut, expanding to 1" at the 12th fret, would probably be thicker than anything you have ever played, unless you have actually played a boat.

[Earl49]

Following this thread with interest. I have not been that analytical about it, but it's a really good idea for a custom build. I know what neck profiles do work for me - Taylor, Rainsong, Blackbird, Emerald, Seagull and others.

And I know what doesn't work - Martin low oval or modified low oval. I can play the other necks for hours without issues, but 20 minutes on most Martin 1-11/16" necks and my left hand aches for the rest of the day. I used to believe it was just the narrowness of the 1-11/16" but have since come to realize that the neck profile plays heavily in there too. I have tested this over and over, including blind tests where someone handed me the guitar. That is why all four Martin's that I used to own are now gone. They were good guitars that hurt my left hand after I turned 50.

Tom2 & Earl49;

Thank you both. I am a bit confused about the profile because when I measure my RS Parlor I am coming up with 1". When you talk about neck profile are you including the thickness of the fret board? In any event, I've emailed Alistair and suggested that he do whatever neck profile he thinks appropriate to the instrument.

[Earl49]

I have not measured, but I think any useful dimension would have to include the neck at its thickest, including the radius of the fret board. Kinda hard to play just the neck w/o fret board.

Later this afternoon I can measure some of my guitars if you would find that helpful. Right now I am running as computer model (surfing here in the background) while preparing for a conference call in an hour.

Thank you Earl. I look forward to what you find.

[ceciltguitar]

Evan, If you have a guitar with a neck profile that you really like, you could make a mold of the neck with Play-do, then trace the profile shape onto paper, and email a photo of the traced neck profile to Alastair.

I think that's what I will try.

Cecil;

Thank you for the suggestion. At this stage of development, I'm leaving everything up to Alistair. He knows my preferences for nylon, nut width, fret board radius, scale length, a C neck, and veneer. In some ways those preferences are minor parts of the guitar in that Alistair can manipulate those to suit just about any player. I suspect that any subsequent Emerald electric guitars will be quite different in neck treatment. I can hardly wait to see what Alistair does with the body.

Sean;

I don't want to take Alistair away from his work (on my guitar), but I want to state my desire for a bag rather than a case for the new electric guitar. So, when he's working on some else's guitar would you let him know my preference? Thank you.

Evan

PS Remind him to get a cup in the mail to Ted.

SEAN;

And so...how is this guitar shaping up? I know that Alistair has been incredibly busy with a variety of projects, but I'm hoping that there is a bench somewhere in the shop with an in-process nylon string electric guitar.

[Earl49]

Evan, the folks at Emerald have been on summer vacation for the past two weeks (back tomorrow) and there will be a backlog of emails and postings that Sean has to wade through. Patience.....

Earl;

Thank you for the news, I'll just wait my turn.

Yo, Sean;

Just in case you missed it while vacationing, I have questions. How's the custom electric guitar coming along? Does it have it's own table somewhere in the shop? Are there any developmental photos? I'm sitting on my front porch, waiting for delivery.