Martin XC1T Finishing (or Refinishing, sort of)

[crobs808]

I just got a Martin XC1T guitar, and it is probably the most unfinished guitar available shipped the factory of any guitar I have ever owned. The top is just sanded unfinished wood, not even a clear/satin coat even. I might even get a splinter if I ran my hand across the top fast enough.

At any rate, I want to stain it, and I found projectguitar.com, which has some good staining tips, but I am still nervous, as I have NEVER stained a piece of wood in my life, much less a guitar.

Any tips on this? Should I not do it at all? I really want to do it, because I sweat easily, and I know (from other reviews) that the top of this guitar can get "dirty" looking, since it is unfinished and soaks up everything. I REALLY don't want sweat stains on a nice Martin.

Anyway, let me know if you think I can do this myself. Or another possibility would be having it stained professionally, but I do not have a lot of money.

Thanks!!
-C

[martinedwards]

why stain?

if you want a solid darker colour then that is stain, just brush it on like it says on the tin.

if you want it SEALED without much colour change then go for water based lacquer. your local hardware store will have it. easy to brush and dries nicely. a quich buff with very fine wet & dry and you're good to go.

3rd option is tru-oil from a gun shop. sticky to apply but comes up with a great finish.

[HHP]

Getting a good stain finish on soft woods is a lot harder than you think. You should really practice on some similar wood before attacking the guitar. Also, applying stain once the bridge is glued on, the rosette is inlaid, and the neck is attached is going to vastly complicate getting an even finish.

[crobs808]

Originally Posted by HHP

Getting a good stain finish on soft woods is a lot harder than you think. You should really practice on some similar wood before attacking the guitar. Also, applying stain once the bridge is glued on, the rosette is inlaid, and the neck is attached is going to vastly complicate getting an even finish.

I think I am happy with not staining it, and just putting a protective coat on. I want the kind of finish that Taylor acoustic have, really glossy. So...

Remaining questions...
1. Is that the tru-oil stuff or the regular stuff? With that in mind as what I am trying to achieve (like the finish on a 800 or 900 series Taylor), then what should I buy? Forget the staining now, I just want to protect it.

2. I don't need to tape off the rosette right? just the bridge, since I want to protect the rosette/soundhole too

3. Do I take all the strings off before I do this? I was told once that removing all the strings on a guitar can damage the neck, and never to remove more than one at a time when restringing, but I dont see how I will be able to brush under the strings.

4. Should I put the protective coat on the fretboard or just the back (neck)?

5. If I do want to stain, can I just stain the fretboard easily?

6. Lastly, will putting even just a protective coat on ruin the sound?

[HHP]

Originally Posted by crobs808

I think I am happy with not staining it, and just putting a protective coat on. I want the kind of finish that Taylor acoustic have, really glossy. So...

Remaining questions...
1. Is that the tru-oil stuff or the regular stuff? With that in mind as what I am trying to achieve (like the finish on a 800 or 900 series Taylor), then what should I buy? Forget the staining now, I just want to protect it.

2. I don't need to tape off the rosette right? just the bridge, since I want to protect the rosette/soundhole too

3. Do I take all the strings off before I do this? I was told once that removing all the strings on a guitar can damage the neck, and never to remove more than one at a time when restringing, but I dont see how I will be able to brush under the strings.

4. Should I put the protective coat on the fretboard or just the back (neck)?

5. If I do want to stain, can I just stain the fretboard easily?

6. Lastly, will putting even just a protective coat on ruin the sound?

Based on your questions, I would strongly urge you to leave it alone. It's your guitar so do as you choose but you need to take into account the very real possibility of ruining the instrument. If a gloss finish is that important, you might consider just trading for a guitar that has a finish you like better as that may end up costing you less in the end.

[crobs808]

I just talked with a professional, and he said he can stain it and put on a protective "Nitro" (gloss, not satin) coat for $250. He said that the Nitro stuff is better for acoustics because it breaths better and overtime it shrinks (not sure what that means), but he sounded pretty confident. He also recommended a gloss over satin because a satin finish would get shiny after a few years of rubbing the area with your arm, but the rest of the top would look satin still.

Anyway, I think I might go the professional route...I can't afford to buy another guitar if I mess this one up (my only guitar!)

Thoughts?

[martinedwards]

Originally Posted by crobs808

I think I am happy with not staining it, and just putting a protective coat on. I want the kind of finish that Taylor acoustic have, really glossy. So...

Remaining questions...
1. Is that the tru-oil stuff or the regular stuff? With that in mind as what I am trying to achieve (like the finish on a 800 or 900 series Taylor), then what should I buy? Forget the staining now, I just want to protect it.

taylor use really specialist stuff that Joe Public can't expect to replicate.

2. I don't need to tape off the rosette right? just the bridge, since I want to protect the rosette/soundhole too

correct

3. Do I take all the strings off before I do this? I was told once that removing all the strings on a guitar can damage the neck, and never to remove more than one at a time when restringing, but I dont see how I will be able to brush under the strings.

you were told wrong. take the strings off, do the work, put new strings on. it may take a couple of hours for the guitar to get back up to stability under tension if you have the strings off for a month, but a regular string change, take 'em all off. no harm will befall your beloved instrument.

4. Should I put the protective coat on the fretboard or just the back (neck)?

the only thing that should go on the fretboard is a tiny amount of lemon or mineral oil, maybe once a year. don't seal it.

5. If I do want to stain, can I just stain the fretboard easily?

you COULD stain it black using leather dye. scuffguard that you fix your kid's shoes with does the job nicely

6. Lastly, will putting even just a protective coat on ruin the sound?

nowhere near as much as getting guinness spilled on an unprotected softwood top would!!

if you can paint your window frames at home then you are capable of doing this yourself. it isn't major surgery on the instrument.

tru-oil is really easy to apply, a little on a cloth and rub it in, wipe off any excess, allow to dry (hang it up by the a string wrapped through the tuners or better still remover the tuners for a better finish on the headstock and a safer support.) repeat the process for 10 or 12 coats.

DEAD easy!!!!

I have pupils with special educational needs (think up your own non PC equivelent, but in Ulster Scots, it translates as "wee dafties"!!.... REALLY!!) who can apply 30 coats of danish oil (very similar) and get amazing finishes on woodwork projects.

I'd say save your money. a bottle of truoil will cost around $5

here's a jumbo I've nearly finished with a dozen coats of tru oil....

[runamuck]

Originally Posted by crobs808

I just got a Martin XC1T guitar, and it is probably the most unfinished guitar available shipped the factory of any guitar I have ever owned. The top is just sanded unfinished wood, not even a clear/satin coat even. I might even get a splinter if I ran my hand across the top fast enough.

At any rate, I want to stain it, and I found projectguitar.com, which has some good staining tips, but I am still nervous, as I have NEVER stained a piece of wood in my life, much less a guitar.

Any tips on this? Should I not do it at all? I really want to do it, because I sweat easily, and I know (from other reviews) that the top of this guitar can get "dirty" looking, since it is unfinished and soaks up everything. I REALLY don't want sweat stains on a nice Martin.

Anyway, let me know if you think I can do this myself. Or another possibility would be having it stained professionally, but I do not have a lot of money.

Thanks!!
-C

How is it that you bought a Martin guitar that's unfinished? Is the entire guitar
unfinished or just the top? I've never heard of such a thing.

It doesn't sound like you have any experience with finishing. DO NOT stain
the top. It will be a blotchy mess using any kind of oil stain and a tone killer as oil stains are penetrating stains that soak into the wood and kill its' resonant properties.

Actually I would suggest that you don't do anything to your guitar until you
get a lot more understanding of what's involved.

It was suggested in another post to use True Oil. If you do decide to attempt this yourself, that may be your best option although I wouldn't
recommend that type of finish for a top for tone reasons. Also, you're not going to get the gloss that you see on factory guitars using that.

You mentioned talking to a professional finisher who would charge you $250. Finisihing a guitar is a specialty skill that an average cabinet finisher is not going to have - no matter how confident he may seem. I'd be skeptical until you see examples of his work.

Sorry for the bad news but you could easily end up with a mess.

[crobs808]

Originally Posted by runamuck

How is it that you bought a Martin guitar that's unfinished? Is the entire guitar
unfinished or just the top? I've never heard of such a thing.

It's just the top. The back and sides are basically Formica (Tawny Satinwood HPL). The top is just sanded wood, no finishing - that is how it comes from Martin for $850, lol. (I was surprised too when I played one in a guitar shop and it was all dirty/nasty where the guitar player's arm rests. I am DEFINITELY having this done professionally before I even take it out of the case (and of course I will check out his samples before I just hand the guitar over).

He also said specifically NOT to use that tru-oil stuff, not only because it just sits on top of the wood w/o protecting it, but because he said over the years you will have to keep maintaining it and redoing the finish every 5 yrs or so to keep it looking good. His "nitro" breathable method is a high gloss, not very thick and a one-time application. (I will post before and after pictures here)

I am getting him to do a stain as well, but I cannot decide what I like; based on this chart below...



I like Burnt Sienna, and Victorian Cherry the best.

[runamuck]

Originally Posted by crobs808

He also said specifically NOT to use that tru-oil stuff, not only because it just sits on top of the wood w/o protecting it, but because he said over the years you will have to keep maintaining it and redoing the finish every 5 yrs or so to keep it looking good. His "nitro" breathable method is a high gloss, not very thick and a one-time application. (I will post before and after pictures here)

I am getting him to do a stain as well, but I cannot decide what I like; based on this chart below....

Nitrocelluose lacquer also "sits on top", which is exactly what you want for finish on a guitar.

Oil finishes (not that I'm recommending them) also "breath" as do most finishes. Aluminum foil doesn't "breath". Paraffin wax doesn't "breath". There's nothing unusual about a finish that "breaths", so I don't know why you think it's significant.

[Explorer]

Originally Posted by martinedwards

here's a jumbo I've nearly finished with a dozen coats of tru oil....

Martin, out of curiosity, how was the top sanded/planed before the introduction of the Tru-Oil? I ask because of all the visible waviness wherever the light is reflecting off the top, but most visible between the saddle and bottom edge of the bass side of the guitar, as well as next to the neck on the bass side.

[naccoachbob]

I'm with Runamuck on this. Does Martin have a habit of selling unfinished guitars? Even my "elcheapo" has finish on it.
I'm shaking my head about that, especially for the price paid.

[HHP]

Originally Posted by naccoachbob

I'm with Runamuck on this. Does Martin have a habit of selling unfinished guitars? Even my "elcheapo" has finish on it.
I'm shaking my head about that, especially for the price paid.

The top is finished in hand rubbed satin. Back and side on X series are HPL and are unfinished.

[crobs808]

Originally Posted by HHP

The top is finished in hand rubbed satin. Back and side on X series are HPL and are unfinished.

The top of the XC1T guitar feels identical to the feeling of running your hand along sanded wood. there is absolutely ZERO shine at all to it, not even a satin finish. the HPL sides are shiny, but the top is dull in ALL lights, no matter how you angle it. Also, if you run your hand opposite the grain, you can feel the texture...if that is not unfinished wood, then I do not know what is. they carry it at Guitar stores, it is not a hard to find Martin...Guitar Center down here has one, and it is really dirty, from all the players, and only been on the wall for 6 months.

[crobs808]

After much bipolar-ness on my part, and changing my mind 1000 times, I think I am just going to save this money and put it toward my dream guitar that I have been stalking for over 5 years now...the Taylor NS74CE.

I figure in about a year or two, I might have enough saved up to go with this $800 where I could afford the Taylor. Will suck to be w/o a guitar for 2 yrs...oh well, thanks for the help. I know a lot more than I did a week ago.