Taylor’s V-bracing turns out to be a Dutch invention...!

[Picker2]

Earlier I wrote that the recently patented V-bracing was a Dutch invention. This was not correct, I just heard that the gentleman who designed it in 2012 is Belgian.

You can see his original post here.

I have always loved the Belgians. They speak better Dutch than we do, have good manners and appreciate good cuisine. And now they also make guitar history!

[Picker2]

Regarding Dutch versus Belgian, I think credit should go where it belongs. Since I made an erroneous claim, I figured it needed to be corrected.

But weekend is almost over so I will not be bothering you much longer anyway. However, it would not surprise me if these patent threads are going to have an interesting follow up. We'll see.

I any case I enjoyed the discussions here over the last few days, sympathetic and antipathetic reactions alike.

[srick]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

Ah, for the quiet and peaceful days of Tonerite and Torrefaction threads...

LOL - it reminds me of the craziness surrounding Eddie Van Halen’s guitar. I think it was Ted Nugent (not my favorite musician) who played it and couldn’t fathom why it sounded just like his own guitar. He figured Eddie was hiding a little black box or something.

Nope, any way you cut it, it’s an acoustic guitar - a darn good one, I’m sure. If you want to improve an acoustic guitar, here are three surefire ways: practice, practice, practice!

Rick

[lpa53]

Originally Posted by srick

LOL - it reminds me of the craziness surrounding Eddie Van Halen’s guitar. I think it was Ted Nugent (not my favorite musician) who played it and couldn’t fathom why it sounded just like his own guitar. He figured Eddie was hiding a little black box or something.

Nope, any way you cut it, it’s an acoustic guitar - a darn good one, I’m sure. If you want to improve an acoustic guitar, here are three surefire ways: practice, practice, practice!

Rick

When visiting a luthier and seller of classical guitars, intending to buy a new one, I took along my 1960s Aria, that is likely all laminate. The shop owner, also a fine player, got sounds out of that Aria that astounded me.

[iim7V7IM7]

The patent was filed by Taylor in 2015 well after the referenced Dutch guitar forum design that was publicly disclosed in 2012.

There is only one independent claim in the patent and it is written as broadly as the applicant could get the patent office to approve. The only requirement is the their is at least one or more fan braces that touch the longitudinal braces.

1. A guitar top comprising: a sound hole; a neck end configured to attach to a guitar neck having a longitudinal axis; a heel end; and a transverse axis normal to the longitudinal axis; wherein a bottom surface of the guitar top includes a pair of longitudinal braces attached to the Surface, the pair of longitudinal braces extending primarily along the longitudinal axis from the heel end toward the neck end and terminating at a point beyond the sound hole toward the neck end, wherein each of the pair of longitudinal braces is positioned on an opposing side of the Sound hole Such that a distance between the longi tudinal braces exceeds the diameter of the sound hole, and wherein the longitudinal braces are oriented Such that the distance between the pair of longitudinal braces is greater toward the neck end than the heel end; and one or more fan braces extending primarily along the transverse axis, wherein at least one of the one or more fan braces terminates at one of the pair of longitudinal braces.

The core of Andy Powers invention had been disclosed prior to the filing of the patent. I believe the forum disclosure of that drawing of a guitar braced that way invalidates claim 1 based on novelty.

(a)Novelty; Prior Art.—A person shall be entitled to a patent unless—
(1)the claimed invention was patented, described in a printed publication, or in public use, on sale, or otherwise available to the public before the effective filing date of the claimed invention; or
(2)the claimed invention was described in a patent issued under section 151, or in an application for patent published or deemed published under section 122(b), in which the patent or application, as the case may be, names another inventor and was effectively filed before the effective filing date of the claimed invention.

(b)Exceptions.—
(1)Disclosures made 1 year or less before the effective filing date of the claimed invention.—A disclosure made 1 year or less before the effective filing date of a claimed invention shall not be prior art to the claimed inventionunder subsection (a)(1) if—
(A)the disclosure was made by the inventor or joint inventor or by another who obtained the subject matter disclosed directly or indirectly from the inventor or a joint inventor; or
(B)the subject matter disclosed had, before such disclosure, been publicly disclosed by the inventor or a joint inventor or another who obtained the subject matter disclosed directly or indirectly from the inventor or a joint inventor.
(2)Disclosures appearing in applications and patents.—A disclosure shall not be prior art to a claimed invention under subsection (a)(2) if—
(A)the subject matter disclosed was obtained directly or indirectly from the inventor or a joint inventor;
(B)the subject matter disclosed had, before such subject matter was effectively filed under subsection (a)(2), been publicly disclosed by the inventor or a joint inventor or another who obtained the subject matter disclosed directly or indirectly from the inventor or a joint inventor; or
(C)the subject matter disclosed and the claimed invention, not later than the effective filing date of the claimed invention, were owned by the same person or subject to an obligation of assignment to the same person.

[srick]

Originally Posted by lpa53

When visiting a luthier and seller of classical guitars, intending to buy a new one, I took along my 1960s Aria, that is likely all laminate. The shop owner, also a fine player, got sounds out of that Aria that astounded me.

I have had the same experience. I’m always amazed to hear what a good player can do with an instrument. Think about all of the classic blues players and their ‘high end’ guitars.

My criteria when judging a guitar has become a lot simpler:

• Size and comfort - a larger guitar will provide more bass
• Resonance, attack and overtone - this includes string separation
• Neck shape and nut width
• Bling, appearance and build quality (including tone wood selection)

And overriding everything is a good setup. The rest of the equation is up to me.

Bottom line: there are a ton of great guitars out there and it is fun trying them all.

Rick

BTW -Toby Walker posted a video on Facebook of playing his five year old neighbor’s plastic Disney guitar... everyone should check that little beast out. I believe that you can get them through Toys R Us!

[frankhond]

Originally Posted by TomB'sox

OK, there are no fewer than 5 current threads on the V-bracing. The 3 previous ones by the OP were already merged into 1. Since then 2 more have been started. Really folks?

Shouldn't you merge all the threads about what guitar picks we use into one thread then ;-)?

But to be on topic - I believe Avalon had something like this for years, which they call "A" bracing.

[Haussmann]

Maybe an interesting consequence of the Dutch-Belgian post from 2012 (http://www.gitaarnet.nl/forum/showth...-X-Y-Z-bracing), is that every guitar builder or (Chinese) manufacturer may produce and sell a (much cheaper) V-Bracing Guitar, because it seems that the (dated 2016) patent of Taylor Guitars possesses no legal validity?

[Wade Hampton]

Okay, so we’ve heard from the Dutch and the Belgians - I want to see what the Luxembourgers can do with the concept!


Wade Hampton Miller

[NotValid]

Did someone mention waffles? Mmmm, waffles.
Idea: waffle bracing. A mix of ladder, X,Y,Z and of course V bracing. Its sounds so buttery.

[Haussmann]

Ich bin neugieriger auf eine Antwort von einem Nachbarn von Luxemburg, Wade. Deutschland zum Beispiel, und besonders die Familie Martin! ..

[Social Exodus]

Someone warm up the tar, I'll bring the feathers.

[SMan]

Wade must speak German and play a Martin.

Happy Freitag all!

[bigreddog]

Originally Posted by loco gringo

The new braces are torrified, and they are using hide glue.

Post of the year! (it's early 2018 guys so you've got all year to top it LOL)

[bigreddog]

Well the Dutch do make great chocolate milk?