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modes, need a basic understanding
Take the major C scale. So the different modes(dorian, etc) use the same notes, but just start and finish on different notes? By doing this it gives a different "feel" to the scale. That's what I think I understand.
Would be curious if there is a good reference out there that helps me figure out all this. I am learning a song, and it uses Dorian mode and it sounds so cool and different, but not sure how one decides to use which mode over a give chord progression. Any simple rules? I will so my research if some one would be so kind to direct me where to look. Have done searches here and haven't come up with any posts that clarify.
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2015 Santa Cruz 1929-000 Sunburst 2011 Collings OM German deep body Fender Telecaster thinline Warmoth telecaster |
#2
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Harley, I just think of modes as altered scales. Dorian mode is the same thing as the normal minor (Aeolian) but with a raised sixth. Mixolydian mode is a normal major key (Ionian) but with a flatted seventh, which in C would mean you'd play a Bb instead of a B note.
whm |
#3
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Tony D http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...?bandID=784456 http://www.flickr.com/photos/done_family/ |
#4
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It doesn't help me much to think in terms of modes because (like you already said), it's still within the same scale. Also, it's not like you play the mode up and down as an exercise when you're using it to solo-so the "start" and "finish" points are fairly irrelevant. Others may have a different point of view, but they aren't very helpful to me.
Drew |
#5
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#6
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modes
I am at a stage where I can play a chord progression and then solo over it using the pentatonic scale positons, ad libbing and having it hopefully sound cool. As long as I stay with the notes in the scale, it "fits."
However it's starting to sound generic after awhile. Was hoping modal skills or knowledge would make it more "interesting". I don't expect anyone here on the forum to educate me, but if there is some book or website I sure would like to go that route.
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2015 Santa Cruz 1929-000 Sunburst 2011 Collings OM German deep body Fender Telecaster thinline Warmoth telecaster |
#7
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To make solos more interesting, the most efficient process is to learn lots of licks, copy others off records. It's like learning to talk - music is a language. You don't learn how to carry on an interesting conversation by studying the dictionary or learning to diagram sentences (do they still do that?) You learn by developing a vocabulary, and coming up with ideas worth talking about, mostly by listening to other people and then carrying on conversations. In music, you can do that by tearing apart solos you like and trying to incorporate the licks into your own solos. One of the more useful pieces of advice I've run across was in an old Guitar Player, a Lee Ritenour column, I think. He suggested you take a simple lick from a record, a new one every day. Learn to play it in all 12 keys, play it backwards, play it fast, play it slow. Try to play it over different chords and see where it can fit. Change to be minor, or major, change around notes, turn it inside out. You'll generate like a 100 licks from that one idea. Do that every day for a while, and you'll soon have a "vocabulary", thousands of licks that all blend together in a way that you no longer even know where they came from, and you won't sound like you've copied licks, you'll sound like you. Good solos are melodies, so its more about being able to come up with melodies - practice singing something, and playing it, so you can play the melodies you hear in your head, and aren't just playing notes out of some scale pattern. On a more mechanical note, it helps to learn chord construction, and know the chord tones. If you are playing over an Am, know that the chord notes are A, C, E. Those are the safe notes that will sound right with that chord. Everything else is extensions of that or passing tones. You can play anything, all 12 notes, and you can justify how they fit over that chord. An A is the root, a B is the 2nd or 9th, the C is the 3rd, D is the 4th, E the 5th and so on. Any note you name, can be considered an extension of the chord. A#/Bb? that's a flat 9 and so on. The only thing that matters is that you know what that note will sound like over the chord and that you can play it when that's the sound you want to hear. Various scales are nothing more than collections of subsets of the 12 available notes. They're handy for being able to memorize and play fast, and some "packages" of these notes can have a certain sound, so you can call them up instead of having to think about each note individually. But ultimately, it's about being able to "have something to say", a combination of hearing things and being able to translate it to the guitar and having that "vocabulary", collections of licks and patterns you can draw on, just like you can pull out little phrases without even thinking about it when you talk. Sorry, if this is offtrack from your specific modes question, and hope it's somewhat useful.
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#8
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Doug - These are the trees of the music theory forest i'm currently trying to navigate with my instructor. Very helpful to read your explanation on top of what I'm learning. I'm not using a book, but just being led by my instructor and using this forum to reinforce and supplement his teaching. Multiple explanations of the concepts make learning the new language less daunting.
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#9
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modes
thanks all, I think I am better off forgetting about this part of theory for now and continue learning songs with techniques, and licks and riffs and doing call and response type stuff with fills.
I printed Bob Womack's soloing thoughts and that will keep me busy for quite awhile.
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2015 Santa Cruz 1929-000 Sunburst 2011 Collings OM German deep body Fender Telecaster thinline Warmoth telecaster |
#10
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2015 Santa Cruz 1929-000 Sunburst 2011 Collings OM German deep body Fender Telecaster thinline Warmoth telecaster |
#11
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Harmony Sovereign H-1203 "You're making the wrong mistakes." ...T. Monk Theory is the post mortem of Music. |
#12
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Most improvisation, among pros more so than amateurs (considering their more frequent mistakes) consists of using combinations of previously practiced and memorized licks and picking patterns.
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Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above |
#13
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Harmony Sovereign H-1203 "You're making the wrong mistakes." ...T. Monk Theory is the post mortem of Music. |
#14
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Doug's post is great, I'm just adding my $0.02...
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If nothing else is going on, then you will probably get the different modal effects by doing this. (E.g. start and end the C major scale on an E note, and you may get an E phrygian sound. Maybe.) But how many times is nothing else going on? Normally when improvising, you have a song or chord sequence you're playing over. That is going to govern the sound, and over-rule any modal effect you try to apply in that way. Quote:
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The idea that modes are used in improvising to express different moods is a myth. It's lies! Fake news! They may be used in composition. As in your D dorian song - which means, of course, that's the scale you use on it (which means any pattern of the C major scale, of course).
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"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen. |
#15
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Somewhat spontaneously combinations of things done many times before. Start listening to several pieces by the same artist and you'll see the fingerprints.
Of course I have memorized the languages I use.
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Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above |