Santa Cruz vs Collings

[brencat]

Originally Posted by otavio

I just know that this Traditional line from Collings are fantastic, at least on youtube videos.
Very, very warm

You should play one in person. You might realize as I did that there isn't a dramatic change in the voicing from the standards. Collings played it super safe with the Traditionals in not alienating their base, but I don't think they won over many Martin fans or those who prefer a more vintage voice.

I was one of those who expected, foolishly in retrospect, that the Traditionals would be the second coming of 1930s Martins. Shame on me...

[pnwpicker]

My ear seems to lean towards what I would call a more traditional sound. I like warm, quieter, balanced, sweet tones. I chose a Bourgeois OM hog/adi. I played a ton of Collings and a couple Santa Cruz. I have incredible respect for both builders. The Collings sounded a little too modern and bright for my leanings. I loved the light, lovely resonant feel of the Santa Cruz guitars I played. Less piano like brilliance, but still lots of overtones that sustain forever but sound very warm and sweet. The one Collings I absolutely fell in love with is the D1A traditional with a cooked top. Lighter build, lightening fast neck. Amazing warmth, sustain, bass, treble, a little less mids than I prefer. Didn't sound like any other Collings I played.


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[dneal]

Regarding playability... Santa Cruz usually features a V profile, where Collings tends toward a C. I much prefer the feel of Collings, although I like the woodier tone of SC.

I think there are a lot of other makers, to include individual luthiers with great guitars in the price range of the two makers the OP is asking about. I certainly wouldn't limit my options to just Collings and Santa Cruz.

[stevecuss]

Oh man, what a choice. A good friend of mine has a Collings OM and it is truly a phenomenal guitar - a clarity cannon. I've played SCGC that also blew me away. I'd add Bourgeois as I think Dana makes some killer guitars.

At this level, it is such a personal choice, I hope you can have a chance to play some in person.

[Don54]

Both are great in sound and quality. Collings produces more in number of guitars and variety. Santa Cruz offers a more traditional tone.

When I think dreadnaught, I think loud, powerful and low end growl. That goes to Santa Cruz.

When I think of small bodied guitars, I think sweet, balanced, focused and crisp. For that, I'd choose Collings.

Those are generalizations, of course. I'm sure there are many examples of exceptions to the rules.

[6L6]

I own five Collings guitars. For me there is no better guitar. YMMV.

[jrb715]

As others have mentioned, you should also look at some other builders. Bourgeois and Huss and Dalton are in the same price range, Goodall can be, and they all make some extraordinary guitars. I find Huss and Dalton close to Santa Cruz tonally, but Bourgeois guitars are different. They have their own kind of drama to them, often lush and remarkably resonant. A couple of the best guitars I've played have been by Bourgeois and Huss and Dalton. (I've only played two Goodalls, and too briefly to make any sort of intelligent report.)

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by MikeInBethesda

Curious to know how folks would compare these two builders in terms of tone, build and playability? Also, which body size do you prefer between the two
and why? I generally get a mild sense that Santa Cruz edges Collings in terms of the popularity of their OM model (and perhaps other small body models) the while Collings has a slight edge with their dreadnoughts. What do folks think?

Back in '99, when I was looking for a 12 fret dreadnought, a kind and helpful dealer in London assembled the following for me to A/B, etc - A Martin HD28VS, A Bourgeois DS260, a Santa Cruz D12, and a Collings DS2h.

The Bourgeois was delicate feeling but with a wondrous tone. Sadly Bourgoeois necks are too shallow for me.

The Martin felt the opposite - very solid and a tad muted compared to the others. It also had a 1 & 3/4" nut width which is a bit pointless on a 12 fret dread.

The Santa Cruz was very good, quite understated, mahogany, but again - 1 & 3/4".

The Collings was more of everything, perfectly balanced, 1 & 13/16" nut width to 2 & 3/8" string spacing, and with a mod. V neck. It was perfect. Simply perfect.

I now have a modest collection of Collings and one Santa Cruz - an "RS" which is their version of the Roy Smeck. Short scale, 1 & 13/16", very comfortable C profile neck. There is something strange about Santa Cruz - it has good days and ...less good days. It is far better built that the Huss & Dalton DS12 I had once which had terminal build problems, and is not as "perfect" as a Collings, but still fine.

I have a friend who plays at my club regularly. He has a Collings OM3. It sounds exquisite. He sold his custom built Bourgeois, and kept the Collings.

I respect Dana Bourgeois highly. I think he really knows what he's doing. Mando Bob once had an OMS (which isn't an OM at all but a 000 12 fret) which was tonally beautiful, and I have an occasional picking partner with Bourgie Dreads which knock me out. I just wish Dana wouldn't make such thin necks.

[Mr. Jelly]

I'm trying to understand the term "modern tone" for Collings guitars. So define modern tone that is not in conjunction with Collings guitars.

[BrunoBlack]

Like others have said, both builders make excellent instruments, but I would also place Bourgeois, Goodall and H&D in the same category. I've have the opportunity to play them all and frankly could be very happy with guitars for each of the builders. It does become personal preference based on some pretty subtle differences. Of this grouping I've purchased and currently own guitars made by Collings, Bourgeois and H&D. SCGC guitars have never followed me home. I find Collings to be extremely comfortable to play and they are perfectly built in my experience. I have lost interest in dreads over the years and find smaller guitars from Collings to be unusually powerful, superbly balanced and rich in tone. However, I like them all and think you can't go wrong with any of them.

BTW regarding production, I spoke with Mark Althans Collings Customer Service Manager a couple of months ago and he told me Collings made 1593 acoustic guitars last year, which is normal production.

[MikeInBethesda]

Hi everyone, many thanks for the excellent comments and thoughts. I plan to get out and play as many SCGC and Collings OMs as I can, and will try to take a look at some of the others mentioned here. Greatly appreciate the info!

[Rosewood99]

Originally Posted by dneal

Regarding playability... Santa Cruz usually features a V profile, where Collings tends toward a C.

My SC OM is the first non-C neck I have owned but it's such a soft V I hardly notice compared to my other C shaped neck guitars.

[Kerbie]

Originally Posted by dneal

Regarding playability... Santa Cruz usually features a V profile, where Collings tends toward a C.

I believe the only Collings acoustics with a standard C-shape neck instead of their usual modified-V are the two Jumbos and the C-10. At one point, I contemplated a C-10 with an OM neck, so a buyer can certainly opt for a nonstandard neck.

[baimo]

I believe you can order collings or SC with a custom neck and for me that would be the way to go. I do not like either of their stock necks. H&D and Martin are much more to my liking with Martin offering 2 different neck styles that suit me well.

So once I have a neck I enjoy, the playability is moot. They would both play nicely. Having owned a Few SC's I tend to prefer their sound over Collings guitars. I have never found a Collings that gave me Gas. Of course many people think the exact opposite. This is just an Individual preference. I prefer the sound of a Martin more than either of these 2 brands.

As Far as dreads go, I do not feel either these brands or anyone else compares to Martin. From a standard series D-18 to a Custom D-14 with VTS top and Guatemalan Rosewood and all the glitz, Martin makes the best Dreads and has a record of turning them out for the past 70 years.

[jaymarsch]

I have played both over the past year and as others have said, they are very close. It will come down to your ears and your hands. I prefer the neck shape of the Santa Cruz over the Collings - it just feels better in my hands. Both makers dial in a great combination of balance, warmth, and clarity. I would really encourage you, if it is at all possible, to find a place where you can go a play a few of from both makers. That is what I did and it really gave me the information that I needed to determine which might work for me better.

Best,
Jayne