Porchboard pedal - subwoofer?

[Bobby1note]

Originally Posted by scadgrad

I've been interested in one of these for years since we're a string band with an upright bass. I'm wondering how they would work with a simple bass amplifier... any thoughts?

Our lineup is usually: guitar, mandolin, clawhammer banjo (or 2nd guitar), and fiddle.

The bass amp would probably work fine, and maybe even better in some cases.(depending on the amp). Still, you'd want to run a line out to the P/A (D.I. out) so whoever's running the console can balance the mix.

Why would it possibly be "better"?? Well, kick-drum for example, has two basic elements to its' sound; there's the low-end "thump", and the higher frequency "click". The low-end thump is roughly 75-85Hz,,, and the click (the snapping sound of the beater striking the batter head), is up around the 4kHz mark if I remember correctly. There are even dual-element kick-drum mic's that help capture that modern kick-drum sound. Subs alone, rarely go above 100Hz, so the click has to be in the mains. A bass-amp has a much broader frequency response than a subwoofer, so chances are, you'll get the "click".

How much "click" do you need or want in a porch-board? I don't know. It's a judgment call. Think of it as a tone-control for the porch-board. If you go overboard on the low frequencies alone, it'll sound muddy. Adding a bit of "click" adds a bit more definition and presence.

[lschwart]

I agree that the EV ZXa1-sub, along with the main speakers we've been discussing in this thread (RCF 310a, 312a; QSC K8, 10, 12; DXR8, 10, 12, etc.)is ideally suited to amplifying an acoustic or semi-acoustic ensemble that includes a bass (either upright or electric) or light percussion. A pair of tops like these and a pair of the EVs will serve you for a wide range of small to medium sized local gigs. It's what I use for my own band (we play eastern-European and Balkan folk music), whenever the gig is too big for the bass to go though a combo amp alone and when we also need to put a mic on the hand-drums. It works perfectly. Note that with the RCFs you need a crossover to get the best out of the set-up. With the other speakers, you can get away with using the speakers' internal HPFs. The RCFs can be run without a crossover, but I found--on the advice from some people with a lot more experience than I have--that the crossover makes a significant difference in terms of clarity and a little extra volume. The crossover I use is the DBX 223xs. Useful tool.

Louis

[Punchy]

Well i thought i'd circle back to this thread. I ended up getting one of the zxa1-12 subs for 15% off. It really provides a full sound with the 2 k8's on top. I keep my guitars tuned down 1/2 step and whole step and like a strong bass so this works perfectly. It also makes the porchboard bass sound so much better. My son and I took turns playing with it on/off/etc. After a few days with it I think it's one of the best things I've done for my sound. My acoustic setup is geared towards parties/picnics/bonfires of 30-60 people and that's why i thought it would be a good fit. this sub can rattle the paint cans off the garage shelf! When i plug in my droid for mp3's this sub really comes alive!

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by Punchy

Well i thought i'd circle back to this thread. I ended up getting one of the zxa1-12 subs for 15% off. It really provides a full sound with the 2 k8's on top. I keep my guitars tuned down 1/2 step and whole step and like a strong bass so this works perfectly. It also makes the porchboard bass sound so much better. My son and I took turns playing with it on/off/etc. After a few days with it I think it's one of the best things I've done for my sound. My acoustic setup is geared towards parties/picnics/bonfires of 30-60 people and that's why i thought it would be a good fit. this sub can rattle the paint cans off the garage shelf! When i plug in my droid for mp3's this sub really comes alive!

Glad it worked out! Enjoy!

Louis

[myersbw]

Originally Posted by Bobby1note

The bass amp would probably work fine, and maybe even better in some cases.(depending on the amp). Still, you'd want to run a line out to the P/A (D.I. out) so whoever's running the console can balance the mix.

Why would it possibly be "better"?? Well, kick-drum for example, has two basic elements to its' sound; there's the low-end "thump", and the higher frequency "click". The low-end thump is roughly 75-85Hz,,, and the click (the snapping sound of the beater striking the batter head), is up around the 4kHz mark if I remember correctly. There are even dual-element kick-drum mic's that help capture that modern kick-drum sound. Subs alone, rarely go above 100Hz, so the click has to be in the mains. A bass-amp has a much broader frequency response than a subwoofer, so chances are, you'll get the "click".

How much "click" do you need or want in a porch-board? I don't know. It's a judgment call. Think of it as a tone-control for the porch-board. If you go overboard on the low frequencies alone, it'll sound muddy. Adding a bit of "click" adds a bit more definition and presence.

As for getting the click, the bass amp should produce enough of it...just make sure the sub has no crossover employed that prevents that freq...else, you won't get it (if you want it).

[Bobby1note]

Originally Posted by Punchy

Well i thought i'd circle back to this thread. I ended up getting one of the zxa1-12 subs for 15% off. It really provides a full sound with the 2 k8's on top. I keep my guitars tuned down 1/2 step and whole step and like a strong bass so this works perfectly. It also makes the porchboard bass sound so much better. My son and I took turns playing with it on/off/etc. After a few days with it I think it's one of the best things I've done for my sound. My acoustic setup is geared towards parties/picnics/bonfires of 30-60 people and that's why i thought it would be a good fit. this sub can rattle the paint cans off the garage shelf! When i plug in my droid for mp3's this sub really comes alive!

Good stuff Punchy,,, glad to hear you went through with it, and that you're happy with the result.

You're probably already aware of boundary-effect, but it's probably worth mentioning anyway; subs are omni-directional (not a point-source), so you can place them in various locations to enhance (or reduce) their performance. When placed on an open floor (no walls nearby), they're in 1/2 space(1/2 of a sphere),,,, on a floor with a wall close behind, they're in 1/4 space,,,, and on the floor in a corner (2 walls) they're in 1/8th space. Whenever you reduce that "space", you'll get several extra dB's of output at each step.

Example; a sub that produces 100dB in free space (hanging in the air/ no walls or floors), will produce 103dB in 1/2 space,,,, 106dB in 1/4 space,,,, and 109 dB in 1/8th space.

Time-alignment can sometime be a factor, but probably negligible within your stated application.

Enjoy that new sub.

[Punchy]

Thanks bobby1note. I didn't know that.