US states with the most pride?

[mjz]

Originally Posted by flaggerphil

I try.

Cool. You managed to fill like another 1/2 page. I think we'll make 17.
BAM!
max

[ewalling]

I think it's odd the way a few people have found this thread troublesome and taken potshots at it. I agree with mjz - it's been an interesting and well-mannered one.

[zabdart]

New Jersey's leading export is people.

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

I confess not understanding how Tiger Woods represents pride. Especially since he found out his wife swings a sand wedge better than he does.

-Ed-

[flaggerphil]

Originally Posted by EasyEd

Hey All,

I confess not understanding how Tiger Woods represents pride. Especially since he found out his wife swings a sand wedge better than he does.

-Ed-

I thought she swung a fairway wood.

[mjz]

Originally Posted by mjz

I'll try again. Please describe the feeling that makes you proud that your friend kicked a drug habiot as oppossed to estatic or happy. What is it about the word pride that makes that seem perfect? Without that... the word is actually meaningless. Why have words at all.

max

Originally Posted by Teleman52

Ok I feel like this has gone on way longer than it should have but..

I actually did define pride earlier:

"pride refers to a satisfied sense of attachment toward one's own or another's choices and actions, or toward a whole group of people, and is a product of praise, independent self-reflection, or a fulfilled feeling of belonging."

I feel like pride is more appropriate in the situations outlined above, happiness could indeed be used in those situations as well. BUT pride often times won't work in the place of the word happy, so they're not completely vise versa interchangeable.


For instance, you could be happy about a negative thing. Such as, a hated enemy trips and falls on a banana peel. You couldn't really use proud in that instance, it just wouldn't fit

When I said proud was a stronger word, I didn't just mean that pride is only more happiness. I meant that it was stronger in that situation. Because they are similar words but not the same.


Note: I feel terrible for anyone who has read this entire exchange

I know, right? Because you still have never described the feeling you have that makes pride the right word rather than happy. All you have done is offered the same definition over and over.

Why proud and not happy? See Wenger's post

max

[Wengr]

Originally Posted by mjz

No massaged definition. Just saying what you actually mean.
Intellectual honesty. Thank you!

Thanks for noticing. Seriously. If we don't strive for intellectual honesty, then what is the point of discussion?

Originally Posted by mjz

This is the type of thinking I try to avoid. Mostly because it relates to self and comparing my self to other selves. Celebrating my part (genes and life instruction) really has little to do with the child's joy. If I give these things freely -- why the need to celebrate my part in it? I'd rather just be plain old happy for him/her. And heaven forbid when those grades are just kinda ok.

An interesting analysis. For me it is a natural occurrence. And while everything that occurs in nature is not a positive, ime, the sensation of pride in response to success is great motivator. It sometimes prompts me to strive to do better. Therefore I see no intellectual reason to be concerned with what feels like a part of human nature.

Originally Posted by mjz

It has been revealed to me that spending time on my self limits my ability to be in the moment. The moment is really a wonderful place and time in which to be. So I strive to connect with it again and again. I fail at it all of the time. And I certainly do not fault anyone who enjoys experiencing pride and believes there is no problem with it. But I do think feeling pride is ok is in response to having our neural endings bathed in seratonin and liking it.

max

Interesting stuff Max. I agree that pride is about self. I just don't think that self is bad. Imo, self is very necessary. Can it be over done- sure, but still crucial. Pride can be about self and not necessarily about self vs others. I can be proud of my kid's accomplishments, and I am. But it's rarely because my kid did better than that kid. It's because she improved. I can be proud of my musical performance, not because it was better than someone else's musical performance, but because it was an improvement over my last performance. Is that about self - yep. Is it a problem? Not imo.

[ewalling]

Originally Posted by Wengr

I agree that pride is about self. I just don't think that self is bad. Imo, self is very necessary. Can it be over done- sure, but still crucial. Pride can be about self and not necessarily about self vs others. I can be proud of my kid's accomplishments, and I am. But it's rarely because my kid did better than that kid. It's because she improved. I can be proud of my musical performance, not because it was better than someone else's musical performance, but because it was an improvement over my last performance. Is that about self - yep. Is it a problem? Not imo.

I think one danger of pride is that it's a distraction. It's a self-conscious 'here's me doing an amazing thing,' instead of just getting on with doing the amazing thing. It's like the person who can't stop taking selfies while looking at great paintings instead of just looking at the paintings and screw the selfies. It's the proverbial 'mirror in the bedroom'; a contemplation of joy through a car window instead of breathing the air outside.

A second danger is the unhealthy stress and competition it encourages. When we come at experience through pride, we need to evaluate how we rate, how well we are performing in relation to other people. We are looking over our shoulder at the next guy because if he's done it better than I can, my sense of pride will suffer. Pride is about how much of a heckuva guy I am, and that can only be assessed in relation to the heckuva-guyness of others. Clearly, there are times when we will need to judge our performances at work, in the home, and at play. But the kind of evaluation that occurs when pride is at the helm is all too often a getting-one-up-on-the-Joneses type. It's nervous and insecure. It means, to quote Seinfeld, that we are not masters of our domain!

[Wengr]

Originally Posted by ewalling

A second danger is the unhealthy stress and competition it encourages. When we come at experience through pride, we need to evaluate how we rate, how well we are performing in relation to other people. We are looking over our shoulder at the next guy because if he's done it better than I can, my sense of pride will suffer. Pride is about how much of a heckuva guy I am, and that can only be assessed in relation to the heckuva-guyness of others. Clearly, there are times when we will need to judge our performances at work, in the home, and at play.

I see this as situation dependent. For example in sports, I would agree with you. We assign rankings to ascertain who is better than everyone else. Personally, I have no interest in such things, but that does not mean I do not compare myself to others. I often evaluate others who do what I do. It's how I come to realize what can possibly be accomplished. It's how I know where the state of the art is. It gives me examples of how I might improve, and what things I might want to avoid.
I'm well aware that whatever I do, there will be many who do it better, and maybe some that don't. Personally I see no reason to avoid comparison and all the benefits it provides.

[mjz]

Originally Posted by Wengr

Thanks for noticing. Seriously. If we don't strive for intellectual honesty, then what is the point of discussion?

Doesn't happen enough here. It's refreshing.

Originally Posted by Wengr

An interesting analysis. For me it is a natural occurrence. And while everything that occurs in nature is not a positive, ime, the sensation of pride in response to success is great motivator. It sometimes prompts me to strive to do better. Therefore I see no intellectual reason to be concerned with what feels like a part of human nature. Interesting stuff Max. I agree that pride is about self. I just don't think that self is bad. Imo, self is very necessary. Can it be over done- sure, but still crucial. Pride can be about self and not necessarily about self vs others. I can be proud of my kid's accomplishments, and I am. But it's rarely because my kid did better than that kid. It's because she improved. I can be proud of my musical performance, not because it was better than someone else's musical performance, but because it was an improvement over my last performance. Is that about self - yep. Is it a problem? Not imo.

I hear you. What about a non intellectual perspective? Just for your consideration. I don't suggest it a necessary way to view life. Although pondering it opens up all kinds of possibilities.

So what if there's more to this thing we call life than the physical stuff we can easily define. What if your conscious -- or life energy - or whatever you want to call it - enables all of that stuff... Not the other way around?

We think there are five ways we interact with the world around us -- our five senses. What if there's more?

I believe we are spiritual beings in a temporary physical existence .... Not physical beings searching for spiritual experiences. And I think the physical traps us and keeps us from all types of experiences and achievements.

An antelope sees a lion. Its instincts take over... Fear and flight. Heightened adrenalin it takes off. When the threat is over.... It just goes back to being.

When we experience a threat it doesn't leave us. We're always prepared for the bear. It occupies room in our mind. Just one example of how our minds get cluttered with the physical and traps us from
allowing our consciousness to explore the moment... Reality... The here and now. I think the garbage that comes along with pride.... Even a little bit... Is the same thing. It clutters our minds. Keeps us away from reality. We call what our mind constructs as reality-- but I think we all have enough examples to make us realize what we construct isn't reality.


You know the phrase perception is reality? Well... No it's not. It's perception, which is shaped by self.

Yes, pride it can be a great motivator--- if physical achievement is the end all, I guess that would be great.

I just don't believe matter is the substance of the universe. Consciousness is. So while all this physical stuff is great.... We're missing half and more of what is around us. That was revealed to me the few times I truly think I was in the moment. When you feel a part of it all. You literally experience the connection with everything around you. It's an amazing thing. Fleeting for me.
Self, by it's very nature, keeps me from it.

Yeah, I know... Kinda whacky for some.... Most. I don't care. I offer it for anyone who wants it.

Max