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  #16  
Old 10-17-2017, 11:37 AM
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rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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Originally Posted by vindibona1 View Post
Yes... But no. Standard notation pretty much applies to all instruments- and voice. Standard notation not only provides the notes and rhythms, but you can see the direction the music is going in. Written music is only a skeleton which provides an outline of what it is to sound like but still requires interpretation. An experienced musician can look at that music and know how to interpret it. And standard notation often goes far beyond just indicating notes and rhythms, but phrasing and dynamics and inflection. Tab does none of that. There are even unwritten rules beyond what is written that one is expected to know (i.e. written straight 8th's swung in a jazz tune). But you can't even approach that with tab. Tab provides no idea of the musical idea- only fingerings and sometimes you'll see tab with integrated rhythm, but that's the extent of it.
Point was a note indication in a piano score and you know exactly where it is to be played on the instrument. True for some other instruments, not true for others. Tab can be as detailed as you wish regarding dynamics and timing - it usually isn't but is not inherently lacking in those options.

For guitar music tablature in combination with standard notation is the way things are often printed out these days (thanks largely to computer software programs). I think that is pretty advantageous in many cases.
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  #17  
Old 10-17-2017, 11:44 AM
vindibona1 vindibona1 is offline
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Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
For guitar music tablature in combination with standard notation is the way things are often printed out these days (thanks largely to computer software programs). I think that is pretty advantageous in many cases.
Of this we agree.
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  #18  
Old 10-17-2017, 12:44 PM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Originally Posted by vindibona1 View Post
tab ... expects you to know a song before playing.
Exactly. For most beginners, that's like "duh? Why would anyone want to play anything they hadn't heard before???"

Also, of course, beginners want to know where to put their fingers. Notation doesn't tell you that. (Classical guitar notation sometimes does, but still expects you to know where the notes are.)
And because beginners are usually learning songs whose rhythms are familiar by ear, the absence of rhythmic info on tab is no drawback.

Naturally, the more experienced you get, the more tab feels restrictive, because you start to regard the different places you can play one note as being an advantage, not a disadvantage.

Personally, I've always preferred notation, because I learned to read it before I ever thought about being a musician. (When I was at high school, everyone learned to read music, because everyone had music classes - some chose an alternative subject after a couple of years (including me!), but we all had that grounding.) There was no tab in those days (1960s) and my first guitar book used notation.

Now, I do use tab occasionally, but mainly for teaching. My teaching material always uses both - sometimes only notation, but that's when showing vocal lines for songs where it's only needed as a guide for when chords change. Normally I tab out vocal lines too, because I remember how much I learned from playing vocal melodies. (Admittedly, that confuses some of my students...)

I also use tab (with notation) for advanced fingerstyle tunes - again, mostly for teaching, and even for classical pieces, where tab (although it takes up more space on the page) I find less fussy to prepare than the usual signs and symbols traditional classical notation uses. (My software lets me copy notation straight to tab, and editing is easy.)

If I was reading a new piece of music myself, I'd much rather have notation than tab. Tab might be a useful extra guide, that's all. I couldn't possibly read from tab alone.
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  #19  
Old 10-17-2017, 01:08 PM
sirwhale sirwhale is offline
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For me, the Notation + Tab that John PR and his friends made for my Bert Jansch Song Book, is absolutely perfect. I am not a musician, but a science teacher, who has been playing (with the free time I have) for just 3.5 years. I'm busy and have other hobbies.

I want to play Bert Jansch songs. I find them complicated, which is one thing I love about them. I can read the notation to an extent to understand note length and I use the tab to access the fingering quickly. I can learn the songs quickly and I am happy.

Surely notation is better for those who are able; tab is better for those who know less and maybe somewhere in the middle for intermediates.
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  #20  
Old 10-17-2017, 01:20 PM
HHP HHP is offline
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To me, they are interchangeable and both are a short term means to an end. The "end" being I have the tune and the basic playing action memorized. From there, it is refined and developed by ear.

As far as altered tunings in notation, I have a copy of the 2nd or 3rd guitar instruction manual printed in English, dates to the early 1800's and was published in London. On several pieces, they indicate an altered tuning but add a note saying "Finger as Standard" so the notation is providing left hand fingering and the tuning corrects the pitch.
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  #21  
Old 10-17-2017, 01:44 PM
vindibona1 vindibona1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonPR View Post
Exactly. For most beginners, that's like "duh? Why would anyone want to play anything they hadn't heard before???"

Also, of course, beginners want to know where to put their fingers. Notation doesn't tell you that. (Classical guitar notation sometimes does, but still expects you to know where the notes are.)
And because beginners are usually learning songs whose rhythms are familiar by ear, the absence of rhythmic info on tab is no drawback.
Most beginners learn chords first. Most beginners need to learn left and right hand coordination, and fluidity. Most beginners will begin with the basics, so learning to read standard notation is not a disadvantage. It takes just as long for a brand new player to learn tab as to learn standard notation if instructed properly. And while some folks can become decent guitar players without learning to read any music, it is always better to have proper coaching.
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  #22  
Old 10-17-2017, 01:47 PM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirwhale View Post

Surely notation is better for those who are able; tab is better for those who know less and maybe somewhere in the middle for intermediates.
I really don't look at it that way-- I think of it as more of a needs based thing.

Learning a fingerstyle piece in an alternate tuning note for note? TAB, PLEASE!

Writing charts for other players to sight read cold? NOTATION!

There's a time and place for things...
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  #23  
Old 10-17-2017, 01:53 PM
multimutts multimutts is offline
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am I the only one old enough that the itty bitty numbers on tabs can be difficult to read "on the fly"?

Notation is just easier to see for me

I guess I'm a fossil.
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  #24  
Old 10-17-2017, 02:46 PM
Mandobart Mandobart is offline
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I've never spent time with tab. I'm a classically trained violinist so I grew up with notation. I like that I can use the same standard sheet music to play a song on a violin, viola (in treble clef, I'm not good with alto clef), mandolin, guitar, etc. Tab is written for a specific instrument in a specific tuning. Try a song tabbed out for standard tuning on a guitar in DADGAD (or vice versa) and it won't work. Mandolin tab can't be used for guitar (or vice versa) without transposition, and when you know enough to do that, you know enough to read music.

All that said, I rely much more on my ear to figure out, arrange, embellish and improvise songs now.

Last edited by Mandobart; 10-17-2017 at 03:04 PM.
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  #25  
Old 10-17-2017, 03:25 PM
Nailpicker Nailpicker is offline
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There have been so many tabs vs. notation threads on AGF. Most run quite long. It got me wondering how long it will take for this one to run its course

Anyone want to start some sort of bet or lotto?
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  #26  
Old 10-17-2017, 03:29 PM
EJWalker EJWalker is offline
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It depends on what I'm playing. If it's single note lines I prefer standard notation. If it's chords I like to know where it's played on the neck, so in that case tablature.
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  #27  
Old 10-17-2017, 03:30 PM
SunnyDee SunnyDee is offline
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This is a really nice example that looks quite modern from 1754. I snapped the shot in the Museu de la Música de Barcelona.

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  #28  
Old 10-17-2017, 04:11 PM
s2y s2y is offline
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I like when tab shows the percussion patterns.


















I know someone's blood pressure just jumped 20 points.
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  #29  
Old 10-17-2017, 04:24 PM
adaw2821 adaw2821 is offline
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I think for a musician, tab can quickly become restricting. However there is a simplicity to tabs that make it appealing. I can quickly look up how James Taylor played that intro to Fire and Rain. And I already know the rhythm. I also play piano and can read notation. I think notation does give you a better idea musically whats going on. To me it tells me the note and the rhythm and lets me figure out the rest. Tab tells me to hit this fret on this string but not really whats going on musically.

I typically use tabs as a rough guide but also figure out a lot by ear..
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  #30  
Old 10-17-2017, 05:23 PM
rwmct rwmct is offline
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I am no musician, if I did not have tab, I would have to make it up.
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