Really strange and interesting Coyote experience

[Tico]

Originally Posted by KevWind

It is interesting how variation can sometimes discount generalization

Good point.
Generalizations are generally true.
Exceptions don't change that.

Yet in today's every-opinion-is-equally-valid culture exceptions are often offered up as if they were arguments that negate generalizations.

For instance, if you state men are generally stronger than women someone will post an exception as if it proves you can't generalize.

Weird.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by HodgdonExtreme

While that may be an honest statement for some people, it isn't for me. While I have dispatched a few, and would certainly do it again, I don't like killing them.

Here is thing about discussing hunting , predators, and justifications with me. As I said I am not someone with little experience with nature and no experience with hunting. I have significant experience with both. I have, as they say, "been there , done that"

All equivocation aside , with the exception of some indigenous people in remote places around the world who survive by hunting , we modern hunters kill out of recreational self interest, only and entirely. While there may possibly be vestiges of predatory instinct in us, it is still something we voluntarily choose to do (And with the exception of the immediate self defence of ourselves or others or possibly our pets) , we chose to do so because it is something we want to do, pure and simple .

Killing out of an imagined pretext of some kind of preemptive action, is just another pretence we convince ourselves is justification. Because most coyotes do not attack people or pets (especially dogs that outweigh them by double or more) So in shooting one you are most likely shooting an animal that is not, and will not be a threat.

Additionally, for coyotes to sustain their huge population - they do indeed require humans. It is the human lifestyle of concentrating food sources, as well as copious human refuse that provides coyotes the ability to thrive in such numbers. But that's a different topic.

Decidedly untrue, coyotes thrived long before civilization came to North America with big population numbers. They thrive in spite of human encroachment not because of it. They absolutely do not require humans to have a thriving population. Whatever sources of food refuse or small domestic pets urban or suburban coyotes might gain from humans, arguably does not, or perhaps might offset, the vast reduction in natural prey that development and habitat destruction bring.

There is always graft and corruption within any bureaucracy, and I'm sure money has *something* to do with hunting season regulations...

Who said anything about graft or corruption, that is a different subject and has nothing to do with the *very real revenue* that hunting puts in play, and livestock monetary concerns are not corruption either , they are self interest.

However, if money was the key driving factor then we'd see many other species subject to the "year-round open season" that coyotes are. Not the 2 week window where you're allowed to harvest no more than 2 deer, one of which must be a doe. If money was the key factor, there'd be a specific license for coyote. Perhaps you'd need to buy tags for each one killed. Point is, there are lots of things that could easily be implemented by states and/or the Feds to rake in more money off coyote hunting, so I simply don't buy your argument that revenue is the motivator for the lawfulness of killing as many coyotes as you want all year long.
Essentially every other species has tight regulations and controls that, if removed, would allow the state and Fed to collect more revenues - yet the regulations remain.

Except the coyote

Did you not read my post ? I said hunting revenue "and" the prolific numbers (the biology) and the history.

Unfortunately opening other species to unlimited bag limits does not actually make economic sense. The other animals simply do have the reproduction rates and adaptability, thus the controls are placed so as to maintain huntable numbers and revenues over the long haul. Not foolishly open the floodgates for a quick season or two of increased license revenue and then have nothing for the 10 or 20 years it might take to recover huntable numbers. Perhaps you have noticed for example when big game numbers do increase , so do the bag limits, and the reverse is also true.

Plus the big money is not in the license fees, it is in the associated spending. Are you choosing to ignore or simply unaware that the real revenue stream that hunting generates, has nothing with licence fees ? You know, one of the main if not the main reasons hunting advocates use against anti hunting arguments . The huge economic impact of all the other associated spending.


An excerpt from the Protect the Harvest web-sight.
In 2011, the money spent on all of these hunting products and activities added up to a total of $38.3 billion , with an economic multiplier effect (the final income arising from a new injection of spending) of $86.9 billion! That $38.3 billion in 2011 was more revenue than Google brought in for that same year. Sportsmen are spending an average of $8 million per day, an impressive total that few recreational industries can boast. When it comes to local economic impact, that amounts to $11.8 billion in state and federal tax revenues, annually.




Also do not misunderstand I am a stark realist, and I have no qualms whatsoever with you or anyone else hunting coyotes or any other game (as long as it is biologically sound to do so) But I see nor reason to further promulgate the myths of justifications that we hunters have used to convinced ourselves when it comes to predators . We hunt and kill because it is something we chose to do for recreation, and we enjoy it and is only rarely if ever in defense. If we do not enjoy it there really is no justification in doing so.


In any case at this point given the animal's behavior so far, a lethal solution is something I have no interest in . That could change if it actually started displaying actual aggression, but employing the tactic of behavior modification thru negative reinforcement with air horn and or pepper spray if it gets too close seems the better solution .
And interestingly enough it has not showed up for two days now after the last episode where I ran at it shouting . Time will tell

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Tico

Good point.
Generalizations are generally true.
Exceptions don't change that.

Yet in today's every-opinion-is-equally-valid culture exceptions are often offered up as if they were arguments that negate generalizations.

For instance, if you state men are generally stronger than women someone will post an exception as if it proves you can't generalize.

Weird.

Very true and generally speaking coyotes stay away from dogs and people Weird

[HodgdonExtreme]

Kev, you are certainly entitled to your own opinion, but it is exactly that: an opinion. One I do not share.

Anyway, keep us posted with the coyote updates on your property. They're cunning and clever critters!

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by HodgdonExtreme

Kev, you are certainly entitled to your own opinion, but it is exactly that: an opinion. One I do not share.

Anyway, keep us posted with the coyote updates on your property. They're cunning and clever critters!

Fair enough. And although I have actually stated both fact as well as opinion , I'll leave it with this thought. Give it a few years,,,, sometimes it's hard to know........ exactly which way the wind may blow .

Will report any change in the current status quo. Yes they are pretty intelligent.

In the meantime check out another of our critter experiences. This is Franny, the matriarch of the fox family that adopted us one ardous Wyoming winter

[KevWind]

Update..... so far, almost a week now and no sign of "Wile E ".
Perhaps running at him and shouting an growling (last encounter) dissuaded his desire to get close. Time will tell

[HHP]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Update..... so far, almost a week now and no sign of "Wile E ".
Perhaps running at him and shouting an growling (last encounter) dissuaded his desire to get close. Time will tell

No telling. Have any of the transplanted wolf packs gotten down your way?

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by HHP

No telling. Have any of the transplanted wolf packs gotten down your way?

At our place in Wyoming yes we have heard them in the woods at night a few times , our neighbor has spotted one a couple hundred yards off but it immediately took off.
However this coyote encounter happens to be taking place at our place in Colorado, so no wolves but !! Last night there was a Mt. Lion that was probably calling it's young, on the hill beside our house

[HHP]

Originally Posted by KevWind

At our place in Wyoming yes we have heard them in the woods at night a few times , our neighbor has spotted one a couple hundred yards off but it immediately took off.
However this coyote encounter happens to be taking place at our place in Colorado, so no wolves but !! Last night there was a Mt. Lion that was probably calling it's young, on the hill beside our house

Last time in Wyoming, I rode out to a deep glacial lake for some fishing. As I walked along the shore, I noticed tracks parallel to mine and it looked like a BIG cat. Me and the horse departed the area.

[HHP]

You may have seen this, but I look forward to seeing this movie. Supposed to come out on demand next month.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by HHP

You may have seen this, but I look forward to seeing this movie. Supposed to come out on demand next month.

No I have not seen it, looks like it might be good . The scenery looks pretty prototypical. If It was shot on or near the actual Res, that is basically due east of our house, on the east slope , North end, of the Wind River Mountains. We are on the west slope where the Winds meet the Gros Ventre

[Acousticado]

My wife and I saw Wind River in theater. It’s a pretty good film.

[Nyghthawk]

Originally Posted by HHP

Last time in Wyoming, I rode out to a deep glacial lake for some fishing. As I walked along the shore, I noticed tracks parallel to mine and it looked like a BIG cat. Me and the horse departed the area.

Reminds me of something that happened to me years ago. We were living out in the boonies here in East Texas. A new lake was going in near my house and me and the dog took a short hike through the woods to see the growing lake. We were coming at it from the back side, away from the dam and road. We got into some mud and red clay and saw deeeep tracks and the telltale swish of the track of an alligator tail.

We decamped the area pretty quick.

[KevWind]

Yeppers some things tend to bring a bit more "living in the moment" focus to being aware of one's surroundings .

The rod is an 8 wt. BTW, with a large arbor reel probably 5" in diameter, so the paw print is aprox. 8 or 9 inches across. Which by the old bear hunters rule of thumb means an 8 or 9 ft bear.