#46
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Thanks, Ted, for the answer. I am not going to sell this one. I love it. Had the tone been different on the newer one I might have considered buying a second. I love the size, feel and sound of the Savoy. I think if I could only have one guitar the Savoy would be it.
Barb |
#47
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#48
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Great instrument
I got a new Savoy late last week and didn't get to look at it or play it much until the weekend. I am very happy with the play-ability and sound of the Savoy. On Saturday, I had my daughter and a close friend independently listen to me alternately play my Cargo and the Savoy through several Bach classical pieces that really let a guitar sing (except for my shortcomings as a musician). They both thought there was a huge difference, with the Savoy coming out far in the lead both in volume and tone - louder, brighter, more articulate, richer, better dynamic range, clearer, better note separation, more sustain, etc. They have always liked the Cargo, and still do, but the Savoy ran away from the Cargo in every area, including the traditional look of wood (they thought it looked like actual Koa). All alone after midnight Saturday night, I pulled out my best sounding Collings, an OM-2, and played it against the Savoy. That Collings sounds as good or better than any other guitar I’ve ever heard, including a half dozen other Collings guitars I own, one of them a very expensive Brazilian/Adirondack Collings that cost four times the price of the Savoy. The Savoy is reasonably close to the OM-2, but the OM-2 was the undeniable winner over the Savoy in the quality of the sound, with a richer piano-like quality to its voice while retaining all the other attributes that Collings guitars are famous for. Tommy Emmanuel once told a group of us in his workshop that, “If you want a truly great guitar, get a Collings, it’s the Mercedes of guitars.” Tommy owns Collings guitars himself, even though he plays Maton guitars in concert and promotes them. The Savoy is close enough to a Collings that most players would be very satisfied with the Savoy as their primary performance guitar. I know I would. I think the Savoy sounds as good, but not the same, as the Taylor 814ce I once owned and took back to the store to get a Collings (with some more cash added, of course). If anyone thinks that stories about Ekoa guitars are just a bunch of hype, play a Savoy, and you will probably be convinced that the stories are real. As is usually the case, the YouTube videos do not do justice to the quality of the sound the guitar produces.
For those who play on the upper frets and are concerned about a 12 fret guitar, like I was, have no fear. The upper frets are very comfortable to reach with the exceptionally well-designed cutaway. I always have preferred 14 fret acoustics to 12 fret acoustics and have never bought a 12 fret, even though I like the way they sound. The Savoy had so much going for it that I decided to give it a chance and hoped the cutaway would work as represented. I barely even notice the two fret difference when I'm playing, because of the design. I like smaller guitars because they are simply more comfortable to hold, play, and transport. The trouble has always been the sacrifice in volume and tone. I have a very fine double top classical guitar, so I know how a good double top can increase volume and maintain most or all of the tonal quality of a single top guitar. I've been told the Savoy is a double top made from the Ekoa. If you look through the sound port with a light on the other side, you can see the light coming through the top. Those two very thin layers make the top very responsive and comparatively loud. I understand the hollow neck increases volume and sustain too, but I couldn't tell whether that was happening. I do know that the volume of the sound was like that of a larger instrument. My Cargo sounds puny by comparison. To me the Savoy is the ideal size, with the volume of a Collings OM and a tone that is fairly close. The big problem for the composite builders is going to be how to sell carbon fiber guitars when the Ekoa guitars (at least the Savoy) leave the CF models in the dust for those of us who prefer a woody tone. It's easy for me to see why Joe has decided to move more of the Blackbird production to the Ekoa models and away from CF. If I played my uke more, I would have a Farallon on my list right now. Jake Shimabukuro may start leaving his Kamaka at home if he gets a Farallon. I'd like to play one myself and see if it sounds as good live as the YouTube videos suggest it will. One thing I have learned is that the Ekoa guitars are more subject to visual, aesthetic imperfections, so keep that in mind. I like the tuning machines. Not quite as much as the open Hip Shots on my Cargo, but the Gotohs are considered better machines by most people, and being sealed, they are less likely to get crud in them when taking the Savoy out in the wilds. I'll check out the guitar more over time, but so far it seems to be an outstanding design that will prove itself over the years ahead. |
#49
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Hope Tom sees the above review with the Cargo comparison. Well done and thoughtful. Believable given his love for Collins, never played a bad one!
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Steve 2020 McKnight Grand Recording - Cedar Top 2005 McKnight SS Dred 2001 Michael Keller Koa Baby 2014 Godin Inuk 2012 Deering B6 Openback Banjo 2012 Emerald Acoustic Doubleneck 2012 Rainsong JM1000 Black Ice 2009 Wechter Pathmaker 9600 LTD 1982 Yairi D-87 Doubleneck 1987 Ovation Collectors 1993 Ovation Collectors 1967 J-45 Gibson 1974 20th Annivers. Les Paul Custom |
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Although the Cargo’s tone has been really good for what it is, the tone is the one thing I’ve hoped would be improved by another fun, small, intimate guitar. More and more, it seems that the Savoy accomplishes this. If I’m comparing the specs correctly, the Savoy is 1” longer than the Cargo, same width at the lower bout, and about 5/8” deeper than the Cargo with an arched back compared to the Cargo’s narrowing wedge and body contoured back. With all this and the Savoy’s 12 fret, 1-3/4” longer scale than the Cargo, I’ll assume you believe that the Savoy retains all the feel and intimacy of the Cargo, with much better tone that justifies the big cost difference. If you confirm, I may not be able to resist a Savoy. Is your Savoy the standard exposed ekoa or a burst like we’ve seen posted? Although you may have no need to sell your Cargo, would you miss it if it were gone? Does it still have a place among your guitars? Just curious...have you played any other guitars of the size of the Cargo and Savoy, and if so, what are your thoughts? Thanks!
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Tom '21 Martin D-18 Standard | '02 Taylor 814c | '18 Taylor 214ceDLX | '18 Taylor 150e-12 | '78 Ibanez Dread (First acoustic) | '08 CA Cargo | '02 Fender Strat American '57 RI My original songs Last edited by Acousticado; 10-16-2017 at 09:02 AM. |
#51
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Steve 2020 McKnight Grand Recording - Cedar Top 2005 McKnight SS Dred 2001 Michael Keller Koa Baby 2014 Godin Inuk 2012 Deering B6 Openback Banjo 2012 Emerald Acoustic Doubleneck 2012 Rainsong JM1000 Black Ice 2009 Wechter Pathmaker 9600 LTD 1982 Yairi D-87 Doubleneck 1987 Ovation Collectors 1993 Ovation Collectors 1967 J-45 Gibson 1974 20th Annivers. Les Paul Custom |
#52
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Tom,
I have to work today, but I will answer all your questions when I get home later this evening. Here are a couple of general answers. Yes, I do plan to keep the Cargo. It has a place for me in the future, just not the one it has occupied in the past. Yes, I have played a number of small-bodied guitars and own several, but my experience with small composite guitars is limited to the Cargo and the Savoy, so I can't speak to the small Emeralds, Rain Songs, CF Blackbirds, etc. I have played several standard sized CF guitars and found them to be brighter and "harsher" than the Cargo, which is one of the reasons I went with the Cargo. The Savoy is a game changer that gives woody tones and louder volumes in a relatively care-free, small bodied guitar. If that's what you're looking for, you may have found it. For my tastes, I got the sounds and the feel I hoped to find. Although I have little natural musical talent myself, I grew up in a family with generations of outstanding classical musicians and played the viola from my youth through college, so I my ear is tuned to the use of natural materials for musical instruments. I'm sure that the use of flax is one of the reasons I find the sound of the Savoy so pleasing, but there are many design features of the Savoy that make everything work well. Joe and his crew used good materials and built something very special with them. Allan |
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Tom '21 Martin D-18 Standard | '02 Taylor 814c | '18 Taylor 214ceDLX | '18 Taylor 150e-12 | '78 Ibanez Dread (First acoustic) | '08 CA Cargo | '02 Fender Strat American '57 RI My original songs |
#54
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My Savoy is the standard Ekoa. I think the burst looks fantastic, and I came close to ordering it instead of the natural finish. One of the great things about a composite guitar is not worrying about keeping it looking pristine, partly because the natural finish is so durable and partly because of not having to protect such a pretty paint job like the burst. I leave my Cargo sitting out all the time, pick it up and play it when I'm passing by, let friends play it whenever they want to, travel with it in cars and planes, and years later it looks just the same as when I bought it. I think the natural finish on the Savoy will be the same way, but I'm not so sure about the burst. There is also the sizeable cost of the burst and the fact that this guitar is supposed to be practical, like the pretty girl next door, not a supermodel. I may wish I had the burst finish on mine at some point, but I doubt it. The Savoy makes its statement with its beautiful voice and its comfortable playability. The sexy look of the burst is enticing, but I'm looking for something to settle down with and feel comfortable, not look at. Besides, the natural look of Ekoa is very attractive in its own right. You are correct that I believe the Savoy "retains all the feel and intimacy of the Cargo, with much better tone that justifies the big cost difference." I will say that the significantly longer scale length of the Savoy results in more string tension and requires more force to fret the notes. In that way the Savoy can be harder to play than the Cargo. The longer scale length also requires a bigger stretch than the Cargo, but so do all standard length guitars, including easy-to-fret nylon string models. I like the shorter scale and lighter tension of the Cargo at times; however, the longer scale and heavier tension help produce more volume and allow more room to play in the upper frets. That's a trade-off that cuts both ways. If I want better volume and tone, I'll take the longer scale. If someone wants a soft-voiced, easy to play guitar that is short, comfortable, super-durable, and half the price of a Savoy, the Cargo might be a better choice for a non-performing couch guitarist who is not terribly concerned with the great tone. Sometimes I'm in the mood to just pick up a guitar and play it and don't care if it is the best sounding guitar around. The Cargo sounds very good to me even though it can't hold a candle to the Savoy musically. If I really want the best in sound, I'll grab one of my Collings, but as close as the Savoy gets, I think my Collings guitars will see far less playing time. With my steel string acoustics, I expect the Savoy to be played more than all the others combined. As far as other small guitars go, I have two amazing Collings 01 models that outperform their size. While the quality of tone is fantastic, the volume of the little Collings is significantly lower that the Savoy. The 01s didn't get enough playing time before and will get less now that I have the Savoy. Same thing with the two Taylor GS Minis -- a standard model and a beautiful Koa model. The GS Minis are Taylor's best selling guitars, and with good reason. I can get used to the 1 11/16" nut width, but I do prefer the 1.75" nut width that I have on most of my steel string acoustics. That additional 1/16" doesn't sound like much, but it makes a real difference to me playing fingerstyle. The GS Minis, as good as they are, don't compare to the Savoy, but they only cost a fourth as much, are well made, sound surprisingly good, and are probably the best bang for the buck of any guitar made. I could go on for some time about the GS Minis and the 01s after playing them for years. Taylor has made some interesting compromises with the GS Minis, and some of those compromises produce issues I wish they didn't. Conversely, Taylor knows how to make very consistent, good quality instruments that appeal to all levels of players. I am always surprised by the large number of top performers who play GS Minis as their couch and songwriting guitars. For the price they are great. The Savoy is great, even at a price that is multiple times higher. I haven't done an A/B comparison of the Collings 01s or the GS Minis with the Savoy, but I'll do that at some point and let you know if it differs from my memory of how each of them sounds. I have also played other small guitars, but none that merited any inclination to buy. None of those others I have played begin to compare to the Savoy. I think there are probably a number of small CF guitars that could be favorably compared to the Savoy, including other Blackbird guitars and those from other makers. I haven't played them, so I don't really know. Someone else on this forum should know. I haven't tried to compare all the dimensions of the various guitars you described. So much of the way a guitar feels is how it is constructed. I try to judge a guitar by how it feels, plays, and sounds, as well as the price. The Savoy may seem expensive, but you get what you pay for. I can't tell you what your buying decision should be. Savoys will be around for a long time, so you don't need to make up your mind or rush out and buy one now. However, I'm glad I did. I played a Cargo several times before buying. The Savoy was a total leap of faith based on videos and comments -- not actually seeing, hearing, or playing one. Allan |
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Tom '21 Martin D-18 Standard | '02 Taylor 814c | '18 Taylor 214ceDLX | '18 Taylor 150e-12 | '78 Ibanez Dread (First acoustic) | '08 CA Cargo | '02 Fender Strat American '57 RI My original songs |
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I just got off the phone with Joe from Blackbird. I just gotta say, what a great company and what a great owner. I can't wait to see where this Ekoa material is going to take them. I have a feeling I'm going to be spending some more money on Ekoa next year.
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#57
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When I was purchasing a Blackbird Farallon ukulele last year there was a question at the shop about how best to add a strap button. They wanted to add a block on the inside, which seemed like overkill to me - just use a bolt and fender washer. So I called Blackbird to ask, and they put me right through to Joe, which did rather amaze me. And in case anyone is curious, Joe says that the Ekoa takes screws just like wood, and that all he uses (at least for the uke....) is a wood screw to mount the strap button.
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By the way, I got the Savoy from Ted and Helene at LA Guitars. They have been great to work with. I'm glad I found them through AGF. I know there are other Blackbird dealers, but I'm glad I connected with them. Outstanding service and personal availability to the customer are their hallmark. Thanks Ted and Helene.
Allan |
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Blackbird Guitars Transition to Ekoa
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I agree, Ted and Helene are outstanding. I've bought four or five guitars from them over the years including my Savoy. He has sure spent a lot of time hashing through options with me in the phone. LAGS is probably the only company I would buy from online. |
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Blackbird Lucky 13 |