Epiphone Olympic archtop verses Godin 5th avenue archtop?

[mrjop1975]

I am contemplating after talking about getting one for years on saving for an archtop and wanted to ask about a couple I am considering. The first is the Epiphone Master Olympic, which is a smaller size which would be fine for me. The other I am contemplating is the Godin 5th avenue. Both are at about the same price point I'd noticed. Any thoughts or insights would be genuinely appreciated.

[Steve DeRosa]

If you gotta have onboard electronics and/or the Dave Rawlings look, nothing but the Olympic will do; if you're more interested in tone, versatility, and playability go for the Godin. I played a couple examples of the Epi and I find them thin and brittle-sounding - very unlike the New York originals (played a batch of those when they were plentiful back in the early-70's) - and in this case the solid top does little if anything to improve matters (FYI the current Gretsch New Yorker has the same issues); by contrast, the Godin 5th Avenue delivers a fuller tone from the get-go - one that can belie its shallow-bodied 16" dimensions (and deliver the classic archtop "bark" on rhythm chords with medium or heavy-gauge strings - I'm using the latter on mine) and all-laminated construction (not as detrimental to archtops as to flattops FYI). If you're familiar with the Seagull flattops you'll find a lot to like - the neck is identical to the mini-jumbo 'Gulls and the body has similar handling characteristics; on the other hand, the Olympic is almost parlor-like (I'm a big-body player so you might find this to your taste), with a thick, beefy, deep-C "Louisville Slugger" neck intended to emulate a generic '30s profile - one which never appeared on any New York original (the '37-38 Epi archtops often boasted necks as slim as 1-9/16" - which would not appear again on any Epiphone product until the mid-60's Gibson production) - which I personally find a hindrance to rapid chord changes as well as detrimental to the continued health of my left hand. Seems I'm not alone here - by and large they've been a bust in the marketplace, and one dealer told me that given the heavy competition from Eastman, D'Angelico, and Loar they're considering a complete rethink, more reflective of period design (think carved tops, vintage-correct trim, New York-style neck profiles, and gloss finish) than the current, somewhat-generic models. FYI they've been down this road before - in the early-90's they released a very limited lineup of New York-era reissues, and the early-2K's Emperor Regent was under consideration for issue in an all-acoustic version (a small batch - no more than ten TMK - were produced as prototypes); here's an example of the former:

https://www.archtop.com/ac_94emp_ri.html

Using Eastman and D'Angelico as a guide, they should be able to produce just about any model in the old New York lineup (other than the Emperor) for around $1200-1700 street - and when and if they do, I'll be online for a non-cut blonde Deluxe; until then, my Godin's my go-to - and not going anywhere...

[mrjop1975]

Thank you Steve for the very informative answer. A while ago, I did have a chance to try the Godin 5th avenue in person, and could kick myself for not getting it. My one issue with the Epiphone is that it is electronics, and from what I can tell from what I'd read, you have to play it plugged in. I wish Epiphone did it right, and did an acoustical only version. Strange Washburn hasn't tried to jump onto this ship with an acoustic archtop in there vintage series.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by mrjop1975

...Strange Washburn hasn't tried to jump onto this ship with an acoustic archtop in their vintage series.

Actually they did, about 25 years ago - you might want to read this thread:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=474561

- and they also had a non-cutaway version of the HB15 in their lineup a few years back, that you may still be able to find as NOS (new-old-stock - brand-new, never-sold merchandise that's been sitting around the shop a little too long) if you search; never played one but I've read some good reviews, it's similar in concept to the Godin 5th Avenue, and you should be able to get it for a good price...

[Looburst]

I lean more towards the Godin. These Epiphone Masterbuilt guitars, including the Olympics, have a very cheap feeling neck, fingerboard and sound in general. I have played a couple of these at GC recently and was completely disappointed.

[BoneDigger]

Well, I own the Masterbilt Deluxe Classic and like it a lot, but it doesn't sound like a traditional archtop. Mine is setup very well and doesn't sound cheap at all. The Godin sounds good too, so I would recommend trying before you buy.

[gmr]

If you are going for the purest old schoolish acoustic archtop tone you would do well going with the Loar LH300. They are priced less than both the Epi Olympic or the Godin. I really like the Godin.... it is the most eye pleasing of the three and quality is very consistent with every one I have come across. I own one of the new Olympic models. I like the little guitar. It is certainly not as loud as a 16 inch archtop model but it sounds fine unplugged and I think it could mic well. The piezo is harsh to my ears. I don't mind the neck profile at all and I find the guitar to be pretty darn comfy, but the stuff I play is just simple and basic. My hands are not large. When I first got it, I did not know how I would get along with the neck. But now, I don't find it bothersome at all. I am not sure what Epiphone was thinking in designing thes new models. They seem to have landed squarely in a "no man's land" between archtop and flat top. But they are quite playable and quite balanced across the strings and fretboard, and for me, since I did not really have much of any kind of pre conceived expectations for the Olympic, I kind of like it. I do like the bigger bodied archtops though, for the added volume. I did a slight polish on the top of mine....could not abide with that strange finish, at least on the top. I wish it had a rosewood bridge/saddle and either no electronics or a dual pickup system like the K and K or JJB mounted on the underside of the top. Those two things MAY calm it down a bit, tonally. I think it might be a tad unfair to compare these new Epi archtops with their 80 year old predecessors if you are of the mind that aging has measurable tonal implications for solid topped and all solid wood guitars. I have very little experience with acoustic archtop guitars aside from the few examples I have played in mostly music store settings, and with my own 1950 ES125, which is all laminate and has a single p 90 magnetic pickup. I would liken the acoustic tone of it similar to the Godin fifth avenue, though the Godin has a bit more resonance. I have heard this ES all my life and it sounds pretty much the same now as it always did, except For the detrimental effects of very heavy fret wear on the first five frets. Makes sense for an all laminate construction perhaps. Aesthically, I am not overwhelmed with the new Epi and have no real need for the electronics so I think I will end up with the Loar LH 300 for an acoustic archtop.

[Silly Moustache]

Looburst, think about it - neither of your choices are "real" archtops. Why not search out an old Gibson, or Epiphone archtop?

[Looburst]

I'm not buying one, just telling others about what I discovered.

[mr. beaumont]

The God in is heads and tails a better instrument.

[Dadzmad]

I've got a single pickup no cutaway Kingpin and love it. I was looking for a ES125 type guitar including Guilds but what I found was that in the price range I was looking for, most were about as old as I am and have a range of "ills" like I do or were messed with along the way. I will agree that nice ones are around, but for a rather high price.

For around 5 bills the Kingpin puts me close to ES125 territory with a recently built guitar. Sounds decent unplugged with medium strings playing along with a flatop. And it shines through a tube amp. I use an Excelsior Pro. This amp has 3 inputs and the Kingpin sound great with a Telecaster plugged into another channel.

These are easily found used. I think some folks buy them for the looks and vibe without understanding what these plywood archtops are supposed to sound like.

[Cepheus]

I agree with most everything that has been said except a bit. I own the Masterbilt Deluxe Classic and did not play the Olympic. This is something in between. For my needs it works well and is very well made. If you want a traditional sounding archtop Steves suggestions are right on. I played a lot of archtops before I picked the Epi which I chose because I could switch between my Dread and the Epi with a different sound but similar volume and playability, and lovely sound. I love the neck, some do not. Mine does not sound thin at all, and in fact seems to have more balance, base, and volume then the Godin I played. If I wanted a true archtop sound my favorite would have been an Eastman which may be out of you price range, second was The Loar. I do not play plugged in so a volume similar to the Dread was important and the Epi delivers that. I did find that unlike my Dread I need to keep the back off of my body or it really dampens the sound. Cheers....

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Dadzmad

...For around 5 bills the Kingpin puts me close to ES125 territory with a recently built guitar. Sounds decent unplugged with medium strings playing along with a flattop, and it shines through a tube amp...I think some folks buy them for the looks and vibe without understanding what these plywood archtops are supposed to sound like.

I've got the CW II cutaway/twin P-90 version (as well as the aforementioned all-acoustic 5th Avenue), and for my money it's one of the most versatile guitars out there. I love vintage archtops, carved or ply - been playing them all my life, owned my share over the last 55 years, played a couple hundred more - and there's something unique about the Godin sound that you're not quite going to capture with any other similar instrument: while you'll have no problem getting a classic '50s bop or rockabilly/roots tone, it tends to be livelier and crisper than a typical laminated hollowbody thanks to the lightweight, resonant woods used in its construction - more airy and Gretsch-like than a Gibson or Epiphone, not to mention two to three pounds lighter on the strap - and if you're careful with amp settings (any hollowbody will create feedback - and not the good kind - so go easy on the preamp gain) you can cover just about any style short of all-out death metal...

As Dadzmad said, these babies are just made for an "American-voiced" tube amp, preferably one in the low/mid-power range (15-40W) and with a 12"/15" speaker (or two); while mine sounds good through a '65 Super RI (I've never played a guitar that doesn't) it really takes on a life of its own through my mildly-modded Bugera V22 (upgraded/rebiased tubes, Eminence Swamp Thang speaker) and '64 Ampeg top-panel/no 'verb Rocket. I'm already a guitar-cable-amp guy (and always have been) so it wasn't a stretch for me, but one good workout with a setup like this - where all the tone is in your hands - and it's a fair bet that you may never need or want stompboxes again; haven't had the chance to try it out, but a Kingpin P-90 or CW II should be a great match for one of the '64-style blue-cab Supros...

[Steve DeRosa]

Update:
The '39 Emperor reissue listed above:

https://www.archtop.com/ac_94emp_ri.html

- sold in two days...

Small wonder...

[savofenno]

Originally Posted by BoneDigger

Well, I own the Masterbilt Deluxe Classic and like it a lot, but it doesn't sound like a traditional archtop. Mine is setup very well and doesn't sound cheap at all. The Godin sounds good too, so I would recommend trying before you buy.

Nice to read, i ordered one De Luxe in natural finish, coming in next week!