Trance Amulet: Finally installing!

[Groberts]

Maury made a great point several posts ago. He commented that most people have a PU installed and don't get caught in the trap of making finite adjustments to eek out a change in treble, bass or any other frequencies. (I am paraphrasing)

I typically have a PU installed and either I like it or I don't.

The video Maury just shared sounded rich and full and quite good. ...that's good enough for me. I will admit my comment about never trying an Amulet was not fair whatsoever and I humbly retract that comment.

[MaurysMusic]

Originally Posted by Vancebo

Excellent clip that shows a very natural sound from the Trance and evidence of very little adjustment from your PZ Pre. Was the board set flat too?

I would say that this was the similar experience I had when I had the Trance installed in my GS Mini.

Thanks! The EQ at the Bose and the board were flat, yes.

[MaurysMusic]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Sounds Good, Maury! There must be some reason several tone-particular pros use the Trance systems and your demo helps explain why--and you're playing with a flatpick! I don't think any guitar and pickup rig can sound any more natural than does your single-source Martin/Trance combo. After all, in all cases we're dealing with pickup systems.

Well thank you... and yes, as a matter of fact I'm playing with a flatpick and a heavy hand.

[MaurysMusic]

Originally Posted by Groberts

Maury made a great point several posts ago. He commented that most people have a PU installed and don't get caught in the trap of making finite adjustments to eek out a change in treble, bass or any other frequencies. (I am paraphrasing)

I typically have a PU installed and either I like it or I don't.

The video Maury just shared sounded rich and full and quite good. ...that's good enough for me. I will admit my comment about never trying an Amulet was not fair whatsoever and I humbly retract that comment.

Thanks. My posting this clip was just to show viewers that I like my tone, and to my ears, it isn't treble-heavy or thin. I'm not sure your comment was unfair - but if my clip gives you hope that the Amulet might not be a bad choice, I'm glad I shared my good experience.

[Groberts]

Originally Posted by MaurysMusic

Thanks. My posting this clip was just to show viewers that I like my tone, and to my ears, it isn't treble-heavy or thin. I'm not sure your comment was unfair - but if my clip gives you hope that the Amulet might not be a bad choice, I'm glad I shared my good experience.

Your clip did indeed demonstrate how musical the Amulet sounds. I loved the sound. Rich and natural.

The reality is; regardless of installation difficulty (for DIY'ers) ...I am not that patient or handy. So I pay expert luthiers to install or do work on my acoustics. I'm fairly confident I would be happy with how my acoustic guitar sounds with the Amulet. (Especially being familiar with the Martin OM-28V) Your amplified sound was very true to the guitars tone based on my experience. Thank you for sharing that.

(And I gig with a Bose L1 also. That made it even more relevant!) I appreciate all your support, participation and posts on the forum. Thank you.

[Petty1818]

What I have learned from my Trance installation is that pickups as natural as the Trance can either sound great or not that great. It's really as simple as that. It 100% depends on the acoustic tone of the guitar. I do like the tone of my Taylor but the Trance just amplified the frequencies that I did not like. No fault of the Trance system, just not a good match.

Maury, it's obvious you love this system and want people to know how great it is. It has been super helpful to me and I love the clips. Your Martin though does have a deep and rich tone acoustically so not surprised it sounds great plugged in. I am keeping my Trance and trying it again once I get a new acoustic.

[MaurysMusic]

Originally Posted by Groberts

Your clip did indeed demonstrate how musical the Amulet sounds. I loved the sound. Rich and natural.

The reality is; regardless of installation difficulty (for DIY'ers) ...I am not that patient or handy. So I pay expert luthiers to install or do work on my acoustics. I'm fairly confident I would be happy with how my acoustic guitar sounds with the Amulet. (Especially being familiar with the Martin OM-28V) Your amplified sound was very true to the guitars tone based on my experience. Thank you for sharing that.

(And I gig with a Bose L1 also. That made it even more relevant!) I appreciate all your support, participation and posts on the forum. Thank you.

Thanks for the kind words - you're very welcome! The AGF is a great place and I'm happy to participate.

[MaurysMusic]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

What I have learned from my Trance installation is that pickups as natural as the Trance can either sound great or not that great. It's really as simple as that. It 100% depends on the acoustic tone of the guitar. I do like the tone of my Taylor but the Trance just amplified the frequencies that I did not like. No fault of the Trance system, just not a good match.

Maury, it's obvious you love this system and want people to know how great it is. It has been super helpful to me and I love the clips. Your Martin though does have a deep and rich tone acoustically so not surprised it sounds great plugged in. I am keeping my Trance and trying it again once I get a new acoustic.

Thank you. Yes, I'm confident that the Trance's transparency is probably its best trait.

[Cuki79]

Hi guys,

I finally finish with my installs.

I have installed the Amulet multiple times now. Here are my observations:

1) Stick to the manual PRECISELY. Every word counts and has to be respected.

2) Call Gary Hull (many times if possible). He will guide you very well.

3) Don't think you can get something way different by changing position. Going to the soundhole only adds nasty reverb and resonances in my case.

4) The bound and clamping is the key. The surface must be sanded, cleaned, dry. Your hands should be cleaned. Adjust the clamp to be able to move it. There is clamp position where the volume is max. It is the best position. slightly away from the center opposite to the cable. Be sure that your clamp is vertical then turn the clamp to apply good pressure. Listen to one string while clamping and put pressure until you get no extra volume.

5) Finally, be careful to not overdrive your amp input. The amulet has 18v dynamic. I did not understand why I had quacky bass and harsh strumming sound... Until I discovered that the LOW input of my JAM 150 sounded better. Then I realized that going trhough the A&H ZED10FX then to the JAM I had no quack and no harsheness anymore!!!

Guess what there is a overall gain pot inside the preamp box...

Cuki

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

Hi guys,

I finally finish with my installs.

I have installed the Amulet multiple times now. Here are my observations:

1) Stick to the manual PRECISELY. Every word counts and has to be respected.

2) Call Gary Hull (many times if possible). He will guide you very well.

3) Don't think you can get something way different by changing position. Going to the soundhole only adds nasty reverb and resonances in my case.

4) The bound and clamping is the key. The surface must be sanded, cleaned, dry. Your hands should be cleaned. Adjust the clamp to be able to move it. There is clamp position where the volume is max. It is the best position. slightly away from the center opposite to the cable. Be sure that your clamp is vertical then turn the clamp to apply good pressure. Listen to one string while clamping and put pressure until you get no extra volume.

5) Finally, be careful to not overdrive your amp input. The amulet has 18v dynamic. I did not understand why I had quacky bass and harsh strumming sound... Until I discovered that the LOW input of my JAM 150 sounded better. Then I realized that going trhough the A&H ZED10FX then to the JAM I had no quack and no harsheness anymore!!!

Guess what there is a overall gain pot inside the preamp box...

Cuki

There is only a gain pot in the Plus and Phantom version of the VT. The others are fixed gain. :-)

[Cuki79]

I tried a BSS style DI and the tone was worse than straight in. So it is not an impedance problem. I suspect it could be sensitive to inputs decoupling capacitors...

Anyway I tried different amps
* my AH4x4
* prodipe 6"
* acus 8
* Fisman artist

The acus 8 did best but not as good as the ZED10fx Hi-Z input + JAM150.

So I think the amulet needs a matching preamp.

Cuki

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

I tried a BSS style DI and the tone was worse than straight in. So it is not an impedance problem. I suspect it could be sensitive to inputs decoupling capacitors...

Anyway I tried different amps
* my AH4x4
* prodipe 6"
* acus 8
* Fisman artist

The acus 8 did best but not as good as the ZED10fx Hi-Z input + JAM150.

So I think the amulet needs a matching preamp.

Cuki

Sometime, I may reinstall my Trance Amulets in my Martin HD-28 using Trance's method of selective-area pressure on the Amulets, which you've verified works. I have yet to install my Amulet Phantom M-VT in a guitar, which may be my Martin D-18, and when I do, I'll use the selective-area pressure method.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

Hi guys,

I finally finish with my installs.

I have installed the Amulet multiple times now. Here are my observations:

1) Stick to the manual PRECISELY. Every word counts and has to be respected.

2) Call Gary Hull (many times if possible). He will guide you very well.

3) Don't think you can get something way different by changing position. Going to the soundhole only adds nasty reverb and resonances in my case.

4) The bound and clamping is the key. The surface must be sanded, cleaned, dry. Your hands should be cleaned. Adjust the clamp to be able to move it. There is clamp position where the volume is max. It is the best position. slightly away from the center opposite to the cable. Be sure that your clamp is vertical then turn the clamp to apply good pressure. Listen to one string while clamping and put pressure until you get no extra volume.

5) Finally, be careful to not overdrive your amp input. The amulet has 18v dynamic. I did not understand why I had quacky bass and harsh strumming sound... Until I discovered that the LOW input of my JAM 150 sounded better. Then I realized that going trhough the A&H ZED10FX then to the JAM I had no quack and no harsheness anymore!!!

Guess what there is a overall gain pot inside the preamp box...

Cuki

I would agree with most of your findings, especially about how experimenting with placement does not give different tones, just more feedback/reverb like quality. I was hoping that moving the transducer closer to the sound hole would tame the high end but it just created feedback.

If clamping is crucial, which I feel it is to an extent then Gary should be supplying a better clamp. I was able to clamp the transducers in the middle of the transducer itself but there's no guarantee that it's correct. It would be neat if he provided a clamp that was the size of the transducer so that anyone could easily put it into place.

As for needing to sand/clean your hands, I would only think that sanding would be necessary on a guitar that had a K&K previously mounted. I don't know what the benefit of clean hands would be unless your hands were covered in something?

I will say this, I tested the Trance through my small Vox Pathfinder amp and was pleased with the transparency of tone. I still don't think it's a great match for bright guitars like mine but I am definitely keeping the system to put in a Martin or Larrivee.

[martingitdave]

It would also be interesting if we could devise a clamp that would ally even pressure across the bottom of the lens, so as not to create a pressure "point."

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

It would also be interesting if we could devise a clamp that would ally even pressure across the bottom of the lens, so as not to create a pressure "point."

The Stewart MacDonald Lightweight C-clamp can pretty much covers the transducer except for the lead wire area. By removing the optional nylon caul that I've used, the footprint of the C-clamp can also be reduced for more selective-area pressure on an Amulet.