I had some fun today...!!!!!!!

[gmccall]

Hi all,

I got to play a bunch of Taylors to today -- but the highlight was playing an 810B (Brazilian w/Engleman top).

. . . W O W !!!!!!! . . .

I found a little Taylor dealor on the Taylor web site, which was about 20 miles from my home, whom I did not know about, and I stopped for a visit after work.

This is a little guitar and violin place in a very rustic, quaint, little western Penna town called Harmony PA. (Kool, huh...Guitar...Harmony...neat!!!)

I walked in and found Taylors on the wall: Most were electrified, so I'll just say 310, 410, 512, 614, 710, 714 some Baby's and . . . ta daaaaaaa!!!

An 810 Engleman/Brazillian (not electrified).

I have a Sitka/Indian 810 but oh boy, did that Brazilian blow every other Taylor away -- I am sorry but it's true. Yes, it's true.

What a sound!!!

Anyone who has one of those babies better be one thankful dude or dudette. You really got something there. I envy you. Lucky!

Man, there is aways something better. Such is life.
-grm

[tone]

Last night, I had a similiar experience. I played a bunch of Taylors (maybe 6) at a small, but very nice dealer. I picked up an 814 BRAZILIAN. But, to my disapointment, I was not extremely impressed.

First, let me say that it was a VERY nice guitar. Here's what I did not like. The wood was beautiful. But, unlike the Brazilian that I've seen in the past, it was unusually light in color and lacked the visual excitement that I associate with the grain of this wood. Due to the lightness of color, the white plastic binding did not compliment the wood at all. It was not enough contrast. Overall, it was not as asthetically pleasing as I imagined it would be.

Secondly, and most importantly, the sound was genuinely Taylor with amazing tonality. But not something I would trade my 814ce for.

I certainly will not base my opinion of the 8xxB series on this one guitar. I know there are some very proud owners of these here in this forum. I hope I didn't ruffle any feathers. But, to me, this particular guitar would not be worth the extra $$.

[PF]

I am not an expert in tone woods at all. I have read that the Brazilian wood available post CITES is not usually as desirable as older Brazilian wood because now wood is used that would have been rejected before. Some makers will not use it because of that. Others will and charge accordingly. I am also not sure of whether figuring on the wood and the quality of tone are correlated in any way. Plus, there is the other thing to consider. Taylor strives to make consistent guitars with a "McDonalds" mentality: The process is controlled as much as possible to ensure that consistency. No slight is meant here. It is an admirable business practice. But when you work with organic things (wood), even the most controlled production techniques will produce an inconsistent product. The fit and finish is there, but the wood is different so the sound is different. I have played some beautiful guitars that sounded awful and v/v.

[trombone]

I've played many of the Taylor brazilians and some are great, others not.
Played a 96 PS-10 that was pretty to look at, but was not exceptional in the tone area. It was hard to get in tune. Average+ sound. Wood was straight-grained, very dark.
I have a lovely 814brz that sounds much better. It has dark and lighter areas, nice to look at but nothing outstanding.
I saw a 97 714bce at a store that had the lightest brazilian I have ever seen. It was hideous. Nearly white, with pink and green highlights. Practically the ugliest guitar I have had to endure. I was shocked that Taylor would have let it out of their factory. Sound was not impressive, either.
So it boils down to what they say in the first place -- play it! It either sounds great to you or it doesn't.

but thats why sometimes you can play a 310 or a 410 and they will sound WONDERFULL!for lotsa less of the ben franklins!

[TheTaylor310]

Howdy victor!

Hear hear!!! You're right~ hehe

Of course, if someone offered to buy me a more expensive Taylor, i wouldn't really turn 'em down either! A nice 900 Series will do, please

Blessings,
nick

if im jumping up...make mine a chris procter....or a presentation......please..lol

[formerly]

I have an 814-BCE. I suppose I would describe the Brazilian rosewood as "exciting," although others might describe it as uneven or even annoying--the grain is not regular, there are knotholes showing, etc.

I like the way it looks, personally. But what sets this guitar apart for me is the tone. The shop where I bought it had an 814-CE as well as the BCE, and I played both of them for comparison. The difference in tone was astounding. The tone of the BCE was richer and bigger, and the guitar was strikingly more resonant. The 814-CE I played was a beautiful guitar, tonally, and visually--but it just didn't compare. It was as if you were playing one in a cathedral, and the other in a room.

I don't know if it's the Brazilian rosewood, or just something about that guitar. I do have a question about the top, though: the original poster mentioned that the 810B he played had an Engelmann top. Is this standard on the 810B, or was this a special order?

I haven't been able to find any specs for the 814-BCE; I've been assuming that it's the same as the 814-BCE 25th Anniversary Commemorative 814-BCE, except for the inlay on the headstock. Is that right?

Mark

[Warblade]

Hey Formerly, Welcome to the Forum! =)

In the Fall 2000 issue of Wood&Steel, Taylor has specs about their Fall 2000 Limited Editions. They don't tell all that much, but they do say that the 800 series Limiteds (810B, 810BCE, 814B, 814BCE) all have Brazilian Rosewood sides and back, and Engelmann Spruce tops.
They aren't listed on Taylor's web site, but I hear that the new site design (or updates atleast) are going up in February, which is very soon now =).

The only differences in Fall 2000 Limiteds and the 25th Anniversaries ones are:
Fall 2000 25th Anniversary
Engelmann vs Sitka Spruce tops
Celtic Inlay vs regular
810B, 810BCE, vs 810B, 810BCE, 814BCE
814B, 814BCE
Plain headstock vs Gold embossed(?)

I guess the one good thing about the new Fall 2000 models are that they offered a 814B, being that it doesn't have electronics and doesn't have the "big hole" cut out of it.

All in all, the Fall 2000 Limiteds seem great to me. I've seen some really quite...."interesting" wood for the backs (greenish-pink and grey stuff), but they've all sounded great, which is the most important thing.
Randall

[gmccall]

To Mark from the Original Poster,

Well... I ended up trading my 810 Standard Sitka/Indian for the 810B (Englemann/Brazilian) I spoke about above.

Just couldn't help it. The tone was so much better, as you pointed out with your 814BCE.

But about this instrument: The Englemann spruce top was specific to this limited run. The production of this guitar was started on November 27 of 2000. It was the 32nd started that day. Taylor told me there were less than 100 of the 810B's, specifically, produced. I do not know any previous history about production runs of this product configuration.

Now, to try and talk price...Taylor also mentioned that if you ordered it on a special order just the way it was produced, it would cost about $1,700.00 MORE, than the suggested retail price of the standard 810. It was then offered at a sugested retail of about $600.00 more than the 810 suggested retail. Since they were a bit rare, I did not realize a very substancial discount off retail, but I decided to get it anyway because of the tone and because it's a little bit rare.

Taylor told me they felt this limited run was an exceptional offering for one of their Englemann/Brazilian instruments, and I certainly agree. Personally, I must put this instrument somewhere in the 900 series, not saying anything negitive about the 800's at all. I love them. I have been around wooden guitars for about 35 years and there are skilled ways luthiers can make their guitars sound better. I heard a guitar from one luthier that was so loud it was not practical to play it, really, and I have heard guitars made of fine woods that were very personal and sensitive. So much has to do with the shaping, and the bracing, and the flexibility of the soundboard.

That's way we must play an instrument. Tonewood quality is difficult to define, but you certainly do pay for what is offered as good wood. That's where you have to trust the maker a good bit, too.

SUGGESTION:
I thing you should call or email Taylor to get the specifics of your 814BCE.

Also, if you cruise the other threads on this forum, you will see a good bit of discussion on the many "tone woods" so I hesitate to burden you with a repeat discussion on the debate over the tone of Brazilian vs Indian rosewood, and it's beauty. Brazilian rosewood is highly figured.

I personally seem to gravitate to Brazilian, but I think that is because of my classical background. I seem to be able to hear the difference in tonality exactly as you discribe it.

There is really a lot if info on this forum. Too bad there isn't a really kool way of catagorizing the accumulated info. I find I just surf this site reading older threads and picking up bunches of useful info on Taylor specs for the many models.

Later, Mark.
-GRM

(My kingdom for a spell checker...)

[This message has been edited by gmccall (edited 01-30-2001).]

[formerly]

Thanks for the responses. I did call up Taylor, and they confirmed the specs that Randall provided--in particular, the Engelmann top.

I suppose it is the combination of the Brazilian rosewood and Engelmann spruce that produces the great difference in tone with respect to the standard 814-CE.

The Engelmann top makes the $600 price difference an even better deal than it is already.

Mark

[Warblade]

I think the 800 limiteds of 2000 were the best value that Taylor ever put out! I mean for a 600$ upgrade price, you get solid brazilian rosewood sides and back (B-Grade, but hey, it still sounds good, and looks very figured), and some nice engelmann spruce tops! Most of the time just to go to engelmann spruce I would imagine it would be like a 200$ upgrade (maybe more).
If I had the money, I would go for a 814B too =P hah.
Randall