What's the most you've paid for tubes? Do you "buy the hype"?

BananasCentral · #1 11-15-2015, 09:29 AM

I'm looking for some old production 12a??? tubes for preamps and am trying to decide between one or two fairly expensive (Bugle Boy, Telefunken etc) or sniping a dozen old used tubes (RCA short grey, GE long black, Amperex Holland, Mullard GB, etc)

These are only preamp tubes so 12AX7, 12AU7, 12AX7A, 5751, 7025, 12AT7 etc. They don't have to be all powerful.

I'm replacing a RCA 12AX7A short grey plate 1962. Before buying that for $1.63 I'd thought the stuff about old tubes was rubbish.

Right now I'm leaning towards sniping. I see a long black Mullard that I'd like to try....

Bob Womack · #2 11-15-2015, 09:56 AM

Get in touch with your local HAM group and ask when the next swap meet is. Someone is sure to show up with boxes of tubes, used and NOS. Honestly, the prices you see on eBay can be quite good if you look at decent grade tubes rather than the hyped brands. There is so much good stuff floating around.

To answer your question, the most I've spent was $17.95 on an NOS 5y3 rectifier on eBay. After that I ran into a friend who had a couple of boxes of 5y3s and 12AX7s, some used some NOS, who asked for me to find the lowest BUY IT NOWs for similar tubes on Ebay and pay that. I bought a few of each and I'm now set for those tubes. That is why I suggested the HAM swap meet to you.

I'm still poking around for a vintage 12AY7 and will probably have to pay about $35-45 for it.

Bob

Dru Edwards · #3 11-15-2015, 10:23 AM

I've never bought a vintage set of tubes before. If you do buy vintage make sure they've been tested. You'll pay more for that but it may be worth it.

BananasCentral · #4 11-15-2015, 10:34 AM

Taking into consideration that preamp tubes might last 5-10 years, $35-45 sounds OK.
That is, assuming it performs like you want.
I've had a few assorted Russian or Chinese modern production in these circuits and been unimpressed. Noisy, microphonic, excessive gain in a bad way.

I did discuss this with a local HAM man, his suggestion was to buy a "lot" type auction of tested OR untested pulls. Swap swap swap BINGO!

Steve DeRosa · #5 11-15-2015, 10:59 AM

Maybe I'm just unlucky that way, but I've found that most of the really good NOS was cherrypicked and stashed twenty or more years ago, and much of the supposed NOS I've encountered was in fact used in "low stress" applications. Don't know what you guys are retubing, but if you're working with a recent/reissue amp there really is some good new stuff coming out of Eastern Europe - along with Cold War-era mil-spec, the Soviet equivalent of those JAN tubes hard-core Fender guys would kill for - that'll get you high-quality tone without the search and expense. I cut my musical teeth on tube tone back in the early/mid-60's, and while I might invest in a full complement of gennie NOS or JAN tubes for a pristine '63 blonde Twin - a $10K amp whose intrinsic value would be increased by their mere presence - I can't justify sinking a high three/low-four-figure sum into the used '65 Super RI I only paid $700 for in the first place; unlike old guitars (or even the amps themselves) that can be repaired/restored, once that $150 tube reaches the end of its useful life as it inevitably will, it's not only gone forever but sussing out an exact replacement will be extremely unlikely. I doubt the uber-esoteric audio manufacturers are sustaining their (admittedly limited) production on '50s/60s leftovers, nor are they about to sacrifice their reputations on inferior tone - I'm sure there's something out there that meets your needs without costing an arm, a leg, and a couple other highly useful appendages...

BananasCentral · #6 11-15-2015, 11:28 AM

Let me muddy the waters. If you can't read this then just pretend it's still a question about preamp tubes or tubes in general.
Because it is

Bob Womack · #7 11-15-2015, 01:16 PM

I was very fortunate to be able to grab a handful of each type I wanted, take them home, and try them out. I was also able to try and buy some 6V6s. More HERE and HERE.

Bob

Borderdon · #8 11-15-2015, 01:37 PM

Small signal tubes like 12au7's or their variants last a long time.
I've used literally dozens of different brands in my home audio, and found JJ"s,
RCA's, Tele's, Phillips &c. to deliver satisfying sound with little discernible difference to some of the esoteric BugleBoys and Mullard "Blackburns" out there. Your MMV, of course.
(I've got a fair stash of 12au7's etc., PM me, I'll give you a couple if you want,
postage on me.)
Edit: I see from your OP you've got a fair collection yourself !

BananasCentral · #9 11-15-2015, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

Understandably, the builder preferred to load the amp with all-new tubes so that he could know that it would arrive at my door in working condition. However, while researching the Tweed Deluxe I had heard that new-old-stock tubes would have a pretty profound impact on its sound. Even though I was a little skeptical I decided to try some tube changes, and the search was on. Firstly, the Tweed Deluxe is well-known for its sustain. The word on the street was that despite published specs which are nearly identical to those of modern tubes, an NOS rectifier tube would greatly enhanced the sustain of the amp. So, I first sougt out an NOS vintage GE 5Y3 rectifier tube. Sure enough, the amp's sustain became much more "pillowy." Not just a little, but a LOT. A little more of the pretty sound I'd heard on recordings immediately began to appear.

Bob

Thanks for continuing with this thread Bob.
Yes "Not just a little but a LOT"

My HAM friend describes it like this.
"Back in the day a tube was designed to operate at X specs without breaking a sweat. A modern tube is running wide open just to meet the minimum."
That isn't nearly technical enough for me LOL but that guy is ALWAYS RIGHT. So I can't just discount it.... even if he is a hillbilly.

You'd mentioned JJ tubes.
The manufacturer of my amps is using Ruby brand tubes. Some super hi gain 12ax???
Very harsh sounding, good for death metal but not much else.

I've looked at any available schematics and have taken it apart myself.
It's a digital preamp which models circuity and gain characteristics of various amps.That is used to drive a tube and output transformer then a solid state power amp.
What I can't figure out is how the lower gain tube improves volume and sound quality.
MORE IMPORTANT, why did the gain cease to function when the old tube went bad? WHy does a low value tube allow more gain and a bad tube zero gain?
My suspicions point to the noise reduction functions (suppressing noise so inherent to digital modelers) perhaps the JJ, Ruby, etc are responsible for amplifying the noise (which is then suppressed along with signal thereby lowering total volume)

It's not a traditional tube function and the maker isn't forthcoming with information.
I did just realize that they'd made some similar devices in the past, just never in the amp format, perhaps those have been more thoroughly dissected.....

I'm just thinking out loud. Electric guitar forums are full of 13 year olds..... it's like talking to your dog....

BananasCentral · #10 11-15-2015, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borderdon

(I've got a fair stash of 12au7's etc., PM me, I'll give you a couple if you want,
postage on me.)
Edit: I see from your OP you've got a fair collection yourself !

I don't Don, what I have a lot of is verbosity which makes it hard to pick out the important stuff.

I had a Ruby, Groove tube (Fender labeled China), and JJ (also China).
I gave sold those away to a teenager for a Peavy Vyper, another modeling amp reputed to like JJs and GTs for metal. I'll PM and at least cover postage, probably more. I'm just asking questions, not begging.

jseth · #11 11-15-2015, 02:30 PM

I purchased my '73 Deluxe Reverb from Ebay... only thing I've bought there... and it came to me with a full set of tubes from the 70's!!!

So far, I have not had to replace any of them, so I guess the most I've paid for a tube would be whatever I paid in the 70's... probably a dollar or two. Back then, nearly every supermarket had a "tube kiosk"; I'd drag my '59 Fender Pro down there and plug it in, and start trying tubes until I found the ones I wanted...

The whole process seemed a bit of a pain in the butt at the time, but now it all makes sense... especially when compared to the price of NOS tubes today!

Aaron Smith · #12 11-23-2015, 08:55 PM

After building and restoring any number of amps, and rolling through tubes old and new, I've decided that new chinese or eastern european tubes suit me just fine. The only exception is power tubes in original tweed citcuits; new tubes like JJ's are spec'd very differently that original 6v6's.

H165 · #13 11-23-2015, 10:37 PM

I've paid more than I'll admit for the old Genelex Gold Lion KT-88s in my Mc audio amps. As for the little tubes, I generally look for dirt cheap old radios or other components, pull the tubes, and match them on my Hickock or Triplett.

I have as stash of about 50 old Telefunkens. I've found them to be reliable, and they sound good to me.

As a side note, dying tubes can add a very cool dimension to amp sound. I had "Get A Hold" (Loggins & Messina) playing through a pair of near-death 6550s in a McIntosh MC60 on one side, and I tried for years to duplicate that sound. It was an almost-Leslie distortion I've never heard since.