Reproducing the effects people with acoustics use pedals for, without a PU and mic

[Znerken]

Originally Posted by MrErikJ

This is a brilliant breakdown but I do have one edit. The “custom Baggs” preamps is started as being a mixer on his guitar strap. The Venue is a mono preamp/EQ/DI so it probably wouldn’t be an ideal substitute. The Baggs MixPro is a beltclip preamp that allows you mix two sources to mono, so it’s prob the closest to his preamp and is less costly than the Venue.

The good news about modern recording and live performing is that a lot of these old-school techniques and effects can be had much easier than in the past. Even in the studio, many digital pedals and DAWs have more than acceptable effects that make the Uber-complex rack units of yesteryear unnecessary. You could prob approximate such a rig with a Dimarzio Black Angel, a Dazzo, a Baggs MixPro, and a good EQ and delay/chorus/reverb unit.

You seem to know Michael Hedges well! If you were to play Aerial Boundaries, what kind of effects would you add?

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Znerken

Well known artists like Jon Gomm, Michael Hedges and Calum Graham uses a pickup and a microphone in their guitar(yes, both) to get a certain sound signature. Now, a question from us "home players". If you record your guitar with one or more microphones(not one inside the guitar), are you able to reproduce most of their effects in post(reverb, echo, delay etc)? Basically, is the main point of having two sound capturing devices inside the guitar being able to produce that certain sound live?


The reason for asking the question is that I actually don't like having electronics inside my guitar. Is it possible for me to record songs with the same sound, with skipping the electronics is basically what I am asking.

I am pretty certain it is, but I would love to hear your opinions as well


I will even go so far as posting two examples;



Both songs are of the waka waka Michael Hedges kind, and I feel they mainly have reverb and delay. Anyone care to elaborate, I would appreciate it.

The big question is, could you record your acoustic guitar with microphones and be able to get the same sound? I think so?

I believe the YouTube video of Michael playing Aerial Boundaries is "lip-synched" to the original released recording of the song. Put another way, the sound you hear is the original recording and the video was overdubbed and synchronized years later.

The original recording was done with a pair of AKG 452 (dunno which capsules) and a Neuman U87 LD condenser microphones, recorded through a Trident Series 80 console. I believe tracks were also recorded from the FRAP and Sunrise pickups that Michael used when playing live. The reverb/delay you hear in the recording was added at mixdown. All recording and mixdowns were done on tape machines. As to the stereo spread, I don't know if his TC Electronics spatial enhancer was used or not, but that stereo spread was easy to obtain given the sources.

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by Znerken

You seem to know Michael Hedges well! If you were to play Aerial Boundaries, what kind of effects would you add?

I’m actually not that familiar! I simply read the link listing his gear and made a quick analysis of how I would modernize/simplify and approximate it. He used a lot of stuff back then because it took a LOT of stuff to sound that good. The systems we have at our disposal have improved immeasurabley, though we still complain about them.

Listening to that music video, I agree with other posters that I mostly just hear some reverb and delay. It sounds like it’s mic’d but he may have recorded his pickup signal as well and mixed that into the stereo blend. There’s probably some studio effects/processing too, such as compression and EQ.

I’m sure that Michael used his Sunrise and FRAP setup the same way modern players use their mag/SBTs: the mag is eq’d to provide the bass and lower mids and the SBT the high-end and acoustic texture. You could get a Sunrise and maybe even a FRAP but the Sunrise is expensive and the FRAP very rare. A Dimarzio Black angel Wired to the tip of your jack and a Dazzo pickup set wired to the ring will get you dang close. Use the Baggs MixPro to power them and control the blend (and activate the bass cut on the Dazzo channel) and with an outboard EQ and some spatial effects, you’re in the vicinity for less than 500 bucks.

[Znerken]

I have another question I hope I can ask. In the Nomad video posted, the "echo effect" achieved at 3:02



I guess one would call this delay, or echo? I notice that this effect isn't that noticeable in other parts of the song. Did Calum achieve that by editing the song in post, and adding the delay at that specific time?

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Znerken

I have another question I hope I can ask. In the Nomad video posted, the "echo effect" achieved at 3:02

[video snipped]

I guess one would call this delay, or echo? I notice that this effect isn't that noticeable in other parts of the song. Did Calum achieve that by editing the song in post, and adding the delay at that specific time?

This is another "lip-synched" video. The song was recorded in a studio. The effects were almost certainly added later. The video was done later still. Then the two were merged.

[Znerken]

Originally Posted by sdelsolray

This is another "lip-synched" video. The song was recorded in a studio. The effects were almost certainly added later. The video was done later still. Then the two were merged.

Yep no doubt! My question however, was if they then add delay/reverb/echo to specific parts. It’s perhaps a self answered question. I just felt that effect was very prominent when he glides his fingers across the strings. You hear it being repeated several times, which in the more busier parts of the song would just make it too much.

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by Znerken

I have another question I hope I can ask. In the Nomad video posted, the "echo effect" achieved at 3:02



I guess one would call this delay, or echo? I notice that this effect isn't that noticeable in other parts of the song. Did Calum achieve that by editing the song in post, and adding the delay at that specific time?

That’s just a echo/delay that they may have increased the repeat or volume level at that point in post production. That said, a lot of reverb and delay isn’t terrible perceivable until you play something staccato, in which you’ll hear the exact number of repeats and decay. When reverb and delay are used, they generally add ambience to what you’re playing but you can’t hear the details of the effect unless you play something and suddenly stop it. That’s how they tell you to judge your reverb and delay when you’re setting up because other wise you’re just like 🤷🏻*♂️

[Doug Young]

You can certainly add reverb, echo, etc, in post. But keep in mind that most of the players you are mentioning do use pickups and seem to use them in recording (probably in conjunction with mics). That creates a very direct and punchy sound, that you aren't likely to get with just mics alone. Mics produce the most "natural" sound, but you need a good acoustic space to pull it off, and also most of these artists sounds aren't entirely "natural", they're bigger than life. Also, it gets tricky reproducing anyone else's sound, no matter what it is. Even with the same gear, everyone's tone is different. Every effects pedal/plugin/device can sound different, even if the basic settings are similar. And we have no idea exactly what settings were used in these various recordings. You should be able to come close to the spirit of them, tho, as long as what you play is also in the same vein. It just takes lots of experimenting.

[Znerken]

Continuing on this thread, I would like to ask, what kind of mic/PU system do one need to be able to reproduce the sounds, if you wanted to produce the sound on the go? Money no object. Would you need the three different cables out of the guitar, each representing a PU/mic or would a stereo system like K&K trinity pro be enough? You miss the soundhole PU with the K&K, I don't know if that works or not?