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  #1  
Old 03-05-2018, 12:48 PM
mercy mercy is offline
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Default needing master Euro top

Ive not been able to find actual master grade Euro tops so Im wondering if anyone here has one to sell. I found a couple of sawyers that claimed to have master but they turned out to be 3A. Ethics doesnt exist on the open market.
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Old 03-07-2018, 09:08 AM
Ned Milburn Ned Milburn is offline
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Why do you need European spruce??

Wood "grades" are meaningless unless you know the seller's wood and grading system. I have purchased AAA wood from a well known source, but that wood was actually grade FW (Fire Wood) with grain run-out so bad it went through one side to the other in less than 4cm at final thickness. I still use that top to do test cuts for rosette inlay.
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Old 03-07-2018, 10:12 AM
printer2 printer2 is offline
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When there are no more Master Grade tops 3A tops become the Master Grade. When there will be no more 3A tops, the 2A will become the Master Grade.

Not too helpful, am I?
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Old 03-07-2018, 10:20 AM
arie arie is offline
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how about journeyman grade or apprentice grade?
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Old 03-07-2018, 10:40 AM
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LMI has people who are able to pull the best top from the pile. And they do have what you want, most likely. Ask for Megan, she should be able to do it. Tell her I said.
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Old 03-07-2018, 07:40 PM
mercy mercy is offline
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Thank you all for your comments. I got a Carpathian top from LMI having told them my reqs and it is nice but the grain count goes from really tight in the middle to really, I mean Adirondack wide, on the edge (if it was joined). I guess that is the best they had.
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Old 03-07-2018, 07:50 PM
printer2 printer2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer View Post
Tell her I said.
I can just imagine the response.
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Old 03-07-2018, 08:06 PM
ChalkLitIScream ChalkLitIScream is offline
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Master grade aesthetic wise? Because I don't think its possible to request and honestly get the best sounding top.

The visually pleasing top may not be the best sounding one.
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Old 03-07-2018, 10:43 PM
JDatlen JDatlen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercy View Post
Thank you all for your comments. I got a Carpathian top from LMI having told them my reqs and it is nice but the grain count goes from really tight in the middle to really, I mean Adirondack wide, on the edge (if it was joined). I guess that is the best they had.
I got a AAA Carpathian top from LMI and it was similar to what you described. Good tap tone but definetly wide grain on the edges.
I did have really good luck with a couple of the alpine spruce tops from LMI. Tight even grain all the way across.

Last edited by JDatlen; 03-07-2018 at 10:43 PM. Reason: Mispell
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Old 03-07-2018, 10:52 PM
mercy mercy is offline
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Maybe thats the problem. Ive got master Carp from several sawyers that isnt. I should ask LMI about Alpine. Yes when you order tops you cant tell the physical properties except you can usually see if its 1/4 but then if youre ordering master it will be.
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Old 03-08-2018, 09:59 AM
Ned Milburn Ned Milburn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercy View Post
Thank you all for your comments. I got a Carpathian top from LMI having told them my reqs and it is nice but the grain count goes from really tight in the middle to really, I mean Adirondack wide, on the edge (if it was joined). I guess that is the best they had.
So there ya go... If the grain (vertical and run-out) was near perfect, I myself would call it "Master" (or in my workshop, "special select") grade.

If you aren't pleased with the grain spacing aesthetic, then talk to your supplier and request something that pleases you more.

A master builder can take a junk top and make a superior sounding instrument. A mediocre builder can use best woods and make a junk sounding instrument. Point being... Don't obsess about your wood.
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Old 03-08-2018, 10:23 AM
pickitluther pickitluther is offline
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There is a seller on Ebay that sells some nice European spruce. I've bought from them many times. Just search in Musical Instruments and type in the search line, European spruce. You'll see plenty of sets to choose from ! Sellers Ebay name is, eurotonewood.
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Old 03-08-2018, 11:04 AM
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When buying spruce it is a good idea to communicate your priorities, there are a variety of opinions about what is important. If narrow grain spacing and creamy color are what’s important to the buyer, they should ask for it. Other factors one might ask for include fiber alignment, degree of quartersawn, cross grain stiffness, relative weight, Q, and the degree to which the wood “talks” to the handler. Assessing these and other factors are what makes true “mastergrade” wood, and perhaps not surprisingly, it actually takes a “master” to do it!
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Old 03-08-2018, 01:13 PM
mercy mercy is offline
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I want even grain spacing and I dont care if its tight. I want even color of the overall top and grains. Of course with a master 1/4d and no runout. I know that physical properties cannot be pre-determined even if asked for because of the limitations of the sawyer. Hes looking at the plate not in it. Same goes for retailers it seems. What Id like is if I could get a top from a builder with empathy for my situation.
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Old 03-08-2018, 01:28 PM
redir redir is offline
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I had a mixed good/bad experience with the previously mentioned eBay seller. I'm definitely more used to the old school grading system which is A, AA, or AAA and anything after that is the very best of the very best and can be called Master or just 4A. I don't think a Master top should be based solely on it being QS. It should be everything up to and including it's physical characteristics. And it should command the highest price. The eBay sellers were nice enough to send me a replacement top for one that had severe runout which was graded Master, but some of the other Master tops I got also had unacceptable degrees of runout. Could have just been some bad luck and in the end they made it right but it's back to my trusty suppliers in the future.

I guess the real point is that builders need to adjust themselves to their suppliers rating system and communication of course is always a good thing.
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