Black Richlite - Page 5

AmericanEagle · #61 03-19-2015, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmy bookout

Four years ago, when this thread was started, the original question was about Richlite being a money saving deal, which it is not.

Jimmy

I think this is the main point here.
You are paying a high price,
you should get real wood,
not fake wood (Richlite, HPL, etc.)

AndrewG · #62 03-19-2015, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmericanEagle

I think this is the main point here.
You are paying a high price,
you should get real wood,
not fake wood (Richlite, HPL, etc.)

Something is only "fake" if it is deliberately setting out to mislead. Martin are not in the business of misleading anyone. Richlite and Micarta are made from paper and linen within resin. Linen and paper are made from naturally-occurring materials.
Are Martin to be castigated for selling guitars with "fake" tortoiseshell pickguards?

RustyZombie · #63 03-19-2015, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmericanEagle

I think this is the main point here.
You are paying a high price,
you should get real wood,
not fake wood (Richlite, HPL, etc.)

I have to disagree.
If you are paying a high price,
I think you should get superior materials.
In the case of fretboards, richlite is superior by every objective measure.

But of course, if someone still wants to use a not as good material, they are free to.

ocmcook · #64 03-19-2015, 07:51 AM

i have a jc-16re plays and sounds great. from what i have read it has a striped ebony fretboard.
i don't know what striped means but i assumed it was ebony.

The Bard Rocks · #65 03-19-2015, 07:52 AM

Never played on Richlite, but have on Micarta. It was fine, smooth, with a good feel. These "fake" (If you want to call it that) woods are sometimes promoted as better ecologically than using real wood, which means trees are chopped down. But, trees are renewable resources. Resins and many modern glues are petroleum based (correct me if I am wrong). Petroleum is not a renewable resource.

That said, there is a real reason to be concerned about ebony: the trees are being over-harvested, are not grossing as faster as they are being taken. There are many other hardwoods that you can substitute for ebony. I have one fingerboard of Ipe and another of Bloodwood among the Ebony ones that I own. The Ipe will far outlast the Ebony as it is much harder as well as stable with humidity changes. The Bloodwood is less hard... but it does look really cool. Pearwood was commonly used on banjos and stand black to look like Ebony. Maple has often been used in the past without complaints. I think there are a ton of wood substitutes to Ebony and Rosewood.

Lacks Focus · #66 03-19-2015, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmericanEagle

I think this is the main point here.
You are paying a high price,
you should get real wood,
not fake wood (Richlite, HPL, etc.)

Interesting perspective. Do you consider the carbon fiber bodies of Rainsongs and other composites (including Ovation) to be fake wood?

Like them or don't, that's fine. But I don't see them as fakery, but as alternative materials. The only instance I can see maybe considering one of them to be "fake" is Martin putting the image of wood grain on their HPL. And in that case, I'm sure it was an aesthetic market-acceptance choice, and not an attempt to fool anyone.

Reminds me of the old Firesign Theater line about the "genuine imitation Masonite gun rack, with the look of real wood."

AmericanEagle · #67 03-19-2015, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lacks Focus

Like them or don't, that's fine. But I don't see them as fakery, but as alternative materials. The only instance I can see maybe considering one of them to be "fake" is Martin putting the image of wood grain on their HPL. And in that case, I'm sure it was an aesthetic market-acceptance choice, and not an attempt to fool anyone.

OK, let me change my wording then please, from "fake" to "artificial".
I do not think Martin is trying to trick anyone. I just prefer real woods
over artificial ones. I also think a guitar that is mainly formica should
be priced lower.

brucefulton · #68 03-19-2015, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmericanEagle

OK, let me change my wording then please, from "fake" to "artificial".
I do not think Martin is trying to trick anyone. I just prefer real woods
over artificial ones. I also think a guitar that is mainly formica should
be priced lower.

Guitars generally are priced in accordance with costs, and richlite fingerboards are comparable in cost to rosewood fingerboards. It's not cheap stuff. I don't know of any guitars made of formica, at least in acoustics, but perhaps there are some. HPL is a paper/resin product, not inexpensive and comparable in price to less expensive wood laminates. Martin HPL guitars have wood tops and are generally priced less than guitars of solid back and sides construction.

I have two Godins, one with a richlite fingerboard and one with a nice grade ebony fingerboard . I have a slight preference for the richlite, both in terms of look and feel, and if I were ordering a custom build, I would specify it as the fingerboard wood.

It's a choice, like anything else. If you don't like it, don't choose it.

RustyZombie · #69 03-19-2015, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmericanEagle

OK, let me change my wording then please, from "fake" to "artificial".
I do not think Martin is trying to trick anyone. I just prefer real woods
over artificial ones. I also think a guitar that is mainly formica should
be priced lower.

So lets say there is a guitar made from an artificial material that is more expensive than wood, and you like the sound of it better. Why should it be lower in price?

StrumFu · #70 03-19-2015, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackmoresNight

So lets say there is a guitar made from an artificial material that is more expensive than wood, and you like the sound of it better. Why should it be lower in price?

Is there such a thing?

AmericanEagle · #71 03-19-2015, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brucefulton

I don't know of any guitars made of formica, at least in acoustics, but perhaps there are some. HPL is a paper/resin product, not inexpensive and comparable in price to less expensive wood laminates. Martin HPL guitars have wood tops and are generally priced less than guitars of solid back and sides construction.
.

All of the Martin X Series guitars have Formica (HPL) back and sides.

Lacks Focus · #72 03-19-2015, 09:15 AM

I guess for me, there are only two reasons to be displeased with any of this:

1) You feel that a manufacturer has "fooled" you, and sold you a product different from what you believed you were getting; or

2) You're a hide-bound traditionalist, in which case you're probably still reeling over the change from sheep intestine to nylon strings that took place in the 1940s.

If you legitimately fall into the first camp, then by all means shout your lungs out about it. If not, it's much ado about nothing.

IMO

RustyAxe · #73 03-19-2015, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Placida

What's wrong with it?

Nothing, except it's not traditional. I've played many guitars with Richlite, and don't feel or hear anything negative about it.

RustyZombie · #74 03-19-2015, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrumFu

Is there such a thing?

Carbon fiber would be the most common example. I'm wouldn't be surprised if thhere have been earlier acoustics made out of artificial materials, and I'm sure other materials will be tried in the future.

zhunter · #75 03-19-2015, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackmoresNight

Carbon fiber would be the most common example. I'm wouldn't be surprised if thhere have been earlier acoustics made out of artificial materials, and I'm sure other materials will be tried in the future.

Not my favorite acoustic but I have played Rainsongs that sounded better than many wood counterparts. And they certainly cost more! Strangely enough if the Rainsong had just a little less ring, I might have to try one. But then I'm not a big Taylor fan either.

hunter