Any Players Here Familiar With Brazilian Or Latin Music?

[NewGuitarist]

Greetings!

I could've talked about this topic in this latest thread I started.. but thought I'd start a new one. This way everyone interested in latin and brazilian music like me could benefit from reading this thread hopefully..

Alright so I play abit on my classical guitar. Never took classical lessons before.

I listen to a good amount of jazz.. that led me once to explore bossa nova and latin jazz.. then I fell in love with latin rhythms (though I'm definitely not an expert on latin music).

As far as I know.. and plz correct me if I'm wrong.. the nylon string classical guitar is a "folk" instrument in Brazil and many latin american countries..

I'm actually curious to know how kids/beginners start learning guitar in these countries.. giving the fact that alot of them start learning on nylon string classical guitars..

Do they study classical guitar technique and then make use of it when playing their respective traditional music?

I've no idea.. but I'd really love to know if guitar teachers/players over there make use of the technique used in playing classical guitar music, when it comes to playing and teaching.
That should help me since I'm looking for a method book that could teach me the classical guitar technique in the context of playing music such as latin and bossa nova.

Otherwise, and before I start exploring latin music, I might need to study the classical guitar technique alone at first (and I got some good sources for that already thanks to the help from some of the members here). Even then I'd still need some advice for good resources (preferably method books) for learning bossa and latin music on the guitar.

Any help is much appreciated. Hope this thread could help everyone who shares me the interest in the latin guitar styles..

Regards

[creamburmese]

I too love Bossa Nova and other Latin sounds. I asked my classical guitar teacher a question recently about Bossa Nova chords and was somewhat surprised to discover he also teaches jazz students at the conservatory ( I have never previously seen him stray from heavy duty classical stuff). I then got an unexpected lesson on jazz chords and Bossa Nova technique ( he started off by telling me to use a flat fretting hand position that was definitely not standard classical). From which I conclude that learning jazz based chords/technique would be a good start for Latin music - all those flat 7ths and 9ths....

[AlVal]

Played a lot of Brazilian music over the years
And still work in Latin bands

On Brazilian music

The
Highlight for me was sharing the stage with Yamandu costa at the Adelaide guitar festival
His dad was a guitarist so taught Yamandu at an early age
Lots of ranchero music from Argentina and Brazil
So he said
Saying that he can play through the villa lobos rep with the greatest of spirit and rhythmic accuracy .., often lacking in classically trained guitarist
All learnt aurally ... By transference with other players
And here lies the key to playing Latin music
You simply have to 'hang' with the players
I imagine it can't be taught on an institutionalised level
Though I imagine many players go through various music conservatories and later adapt to the stylistic requirements
http://youtu.be/AT_GqoRG4lM

Knowledge of improvisation .. Chord scale relationships can also be of paramount advantage
Something again not explored in the majority of classically based learning

For example one of Brazils greatest guitarists, Raphael Rabello grew up in a family of musicians
And spent quite a bit of time with paco de lucia
http://youtu.be/AOnr5NpPj8U

There's a lot of styles within the music
Like flamenco is regional to a degree
Bossa nova is a basically a jazz hybrid .. Slowed down , polite samba if you like
Choro is the killer technically and the pre curser to modern samba
A music from rio
Other forms
Maxixe , samba , forro, Frevo , tango Brasilia , Vals
The list goes on and on

Nelson Faria ' Brazilian guitar book' is a must have http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/188321...&robot_redir=1
Jorge morel has a good, short introduction to a varitey of Latin based music in a Mel bay publication
Otherwise there's a lot on you tube

Either coming from a classical or jazz background would be of great help

Much of the music is played on 7 string guitars ( Brazilian guitar .. Low C or B.. Though many fine 6 string examples )
Some artists worth researching are
Raphael Rabello
Baden Powell
Yamandu costa
Mauricio Carrilho ( runs a school in rio. Specifically for choro and samba )
Bola sete
Paulinho noguiera
Just to name a few

I still play at Roda's ( jam sessions ) but my main love is flamenco
My fusion group uses music from both styles as well as Cuban etc

A general observation is players from the jazz and flamrnco tradition seem to have a better grasp on the 'groove' than players steeped in classical tradition ... A mute point but the groove comes first

This video is of myself playing a Brazilian piece in a more robust flamenco style
Takes a minute to get of the ground :-)
http://youtu.be/cq0gFVEQWDw

This video is of a guitar trio I played in playing only Brazilian music
The style here is a baiao
http://youtu.be/If1_0_gGtCM
Hope that helps
Al

[bohemian]

Al,
Excellent videos, very individually stylized. Good stuff. It appears your background is more flamenco than classical ??

Your list parallels mine,, though I had not heard of Maurice Carilho, I'll do some research.

I have a collection of perhaps 60 Brazilian cds... Cavaquinho is another focus of mine.

Paolinho Nogueira is one of my all time favorite players. I have two of his CD's.. well worn.
It might be noted he is one of the rare breed who plays without nails.
I believe this video shows the guitar given to him by his father:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzjW...layer_embedded

And this one (there are others on youtube)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=prYyAy2uKSU

Earlier in his career:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=QFm5_Bhnz40

Raphael Rabello, one of three videos of interviews.. take a look who is also there !:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=FgKIb1GnWF4

And one of my favorites with his sister Luciana on cavaquinho:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=ksgK792D6MU


For NewGuitarist (OP)

I would recommend a video by Romero Lubambo Entitled:
" Bossa Nova Guitar" This is put out by Hal Leonard


The video shows 33 bossa nova guitar patterns, it includes transcriptions with TAB.

[AlVal]

Good to meet a kindred spirit

My apologies it's
Mauricio Carrilho http://www.allmusic.com/artist/maur%...2583/biography
Big figure in the rio choro and samba world
My iPhone went it auto spell without checking
I've corrected the original post

Thanks for the positive feedback
I've been playing classical guitar since I was young .. Still keep some pieces oiled for gigs .
But never ended as a performance strength for me
Flamenco and jazz have been there for sometime both
But also immersed in Brazilian music
I guess 'Latin' music and flamenco have also given me a performance income which I enjoy

I have one noguiera disc
The one where he's mostly playing the 1937 del Vecchio
Tuned sharp from concert pitch
'reflexoes' - a latter recording
Such a treasured disc ...

And the Raphael and lubambo 'shades of Rio' has to be one of the all time great guitar duo recordings

I've heard of the publication by lubambo . Sounds like a great resource
I remember Marco Pereira also had a book of how to play some of those styles

Guess Latin guitar can mean anything from a rumba noodle in Aminor
To the most complex of musical elements

[bohemian]

Al,

I have reflexes.. unfortunately the recording company disappeared..
I have another from them Something along the lines of Night..... ?
I'll dig it out.

I'll check out the links.

BTW I owned a 1961 Ramirez blanca with pegs, bought from the original owner in mint cond. Made by Contreras when he was shop foreman.

Sadly, I sold it in a fit of poverty.

I now have a Cervantes flamenco blanca cutaway made by Carlos Pina.

I do not have the fingernails ( or skill) to play flamenco though I dabbled for a few years. Love the music..

I am partial to Brazilian music.. can't get enough.

[AlVal]

Sorry to hear about the Ramirez
Sounds like a wonderful guitar from a golden era from the workshop
They are great guitars
The one in the clips was a 1989 but eventually gone to make way for the Conde
In a perfect world both would still be with me
But understand fits of poverty all to well ..

So good to hear about your love of Brazilian music
Along with Spanish guitar it really doesn't get much better to listen to and play IMHO
You do know that short nails are best for flamenco ?
Hardly any seems to work best ala paco?
But guess the advantage for you is Brazilian music works great with out...
Gives it that warmth ...
Acrylics just never seem a great sonic option

Best to you
Al

[Gitfiddlemann]

Saying that he can play through the villa lobos rep with the greatest of spirit and rhythmic accuracy .., often lacking in classically trained guitarist
All learnt aurally ...

....A general observation is players from the jazz and flamrnco tradition seem to have a better grasp on the 'groove' than players steeped in classical tradition ... A mute point but the groove comes first

I think so too, but you obviously have a much better understanding of this than I do.
My observations come mostly from listening and reading. Playing wise, I've only been exposed to the "classical" latin composers, such as Villa-Lobos. I don't presume to play any of his music with any great proficiency, but lately I've been re-visiting his wonderful preludes, and it struck me (again) how useless a metronome is when trying to practice this music. In fact, it's a hindrance. On the other hand, only a strong underlying rhythm and steady pulse can be the glue that unites all the seemingly differing musical elements within a piece together as one. It's a real challenge to get that "pulse" right. If you don't, it can sound so emotionally disjointed even if all the notes are right. So, it seems much more important in this music to have the rhythm or groove down than all the notes memorized correctly!
(Wonderful playing in your videos btw. Really fine. )

[GHS]

This thread got me interested. I saw my teacher last night. He had an older music book, " The Brazilian Masters", compilation by Brian Hodel, Hollis Music INc. Outstanding songs. Looking for a copy now. Thanks.

[NewGuitarist]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Really helpful and informative.

So glad to to talk to people who love Brazilian and latin music.

Originally Posted by AlVal

A general observation is players from the jazz and flamrnco tradition seem to have a better grasp on the 'groove' than players steeped in classical tradition ... A mute point but the groove comes first

I tend to feel the same too. IMHO, that may be due to the fact that both jazz and flamenco players need to know how to improvise (two different improvisation styles though) and they're both familiar with different types of complex rhythms..

Not sure, but a quick observation.. Brazilian players seem to use a technique much similar to classical players (and not so much to flamenco players).. It's not as strict (for the lack of a better word) but very similar. Maybe without nails should make it warmer as you said (especially for bossa).. and the left hand is a bit different too mainly to cope with those complicated fingerings classical players are just not used to normally..

So as a conclusion, studying classical guitar technique might have advantages (and some disadvantages?) when it comes to playing Brazilian or latin guitar..

What do you think guys?

[Nkim718]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IU4SJxHIyDc

[AlVal]

The observation regarding classical technique is true to a point
It really depends on who your listening to I guess and styles beyond bossa nova
( another observation is most Brazilian guitarist I've met and played with don't care too much for bossa nova - they seem to have a love for more nationalistic music such as samba and choro )
The thumb seems to be more in line with flamenco players
Less free stroke more rest
Hand position more in line with flamenco players
Less searching for tone .. Less posturing
Use of picado as well as free stroke for melodic passages
But less rasquesdos, alzapua for sure
But any strumming has a more flamenco attack than classical
Think it makes sense to investigate both without excluding either

http://youtu.be/wb2p1fzrGIU

http://youtu.be/vT1sMuGc4uE

http://youtu.be/qa40u7JN4BM


http://youtu.be/kdLKTDsm3EA

And flavio Rodriguez ( Brazilian/flamenco guitarist ) http://youtu.be/fofiIAEGf6Y

Good luck with it all
A lifetime of study there ...
And thanks for the topic

But study of classical technique will most definitely set you on the path
But also have a jazz and flamenco teacher handy to balance it all out
I hear air fares to Brazil are pretty cheap at present now the world cups done and dusted
That would be the best bet ...

[bohemian]

"You do know that short nails are best for flamenco ?"

I had never heard that .

How much "protrusion" would be optimal ?

[AlVal]

The Graf Martinez book has a good picture
I'll see if I can upload it
But this is about right http://v2or.files.wordpress.com/2010...92d4b2ee3.jpeg
Or shorter on the ramped side
Nails are a huge hinderence to picado

Also cover the top third with nail or superglue
Doesn't wreck the nail.. Gives great protection and strength for a few days
Forget hardners etc .. They make the nail break eventually


But any picture of paco will show
More callous than nail
Should just be able to see the nail over the finger
The thumb nail is a different story

As much as I hate to post any Ruben diaz video he does show the approach quite well
http://youtu.be/PGQkadtKIxI
Hope that helps

[bohemian]

A list of a few of my favorite "Brazilian" CDs

Baden Powell................. " O Universo Musical de Baden Powell"

Gilvan de Oliveira................" Sol"
"Violao Caipira"
"Traq(g)uina"
" Re Tratos"

Paulinho Nogueira " Reflexoes"
" Late Night Guitar"

Carlos Henrique "Comigo Nao,Vialao"

"Raphael Rabello, & Dino 7 Cordas"

Raphael Rabello "Todos os Tons"

Hamilton de Holanda self titled
"Os Bambas do Bandolim"

Ulisses Rocha "Moleque"

Juarez Moreira " Bom Dia"

"Club de Choros"

Henrique Cazes " Waldir Azevedo, Pinguinha,Hermeto,&Cia"
"Pixinnguinha de Bolso"


"Tributo a Waldir Azevedo o Mestre do Cavaquinho"

Joel Nascimento & Sexteto Brasileiro

Arnaldinho & Familia Contemporanea " Na Chama do Choro"

Sabastiao Tapajos " Virtuoso"

Tonino Horta, Chiquito Braga, Juarez Moreira "Quadros Modernos"

Rod Petrone "Notes from Brazil"