#46
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Glenn, I have the other guitar which was used to make this recording -- it's the Sitka/EIR SCGC 00. I want to reiterate what Eric said above -- in person the guitars sound more alike than they do in this recording. Eric's guitar definitely hit the mics (I think he used a pair of Josephson C42s in x-y) harder and differently than mine did. And just to throw a little more spice into the discussion, I should mention that Eric's guitar also features all hide glue construction. It's an astonishing guitar. And his playing -- oy, don't get me started! -- mark mcp |
#47
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Thought this may be of interest from a place that supplies a number of the builders....
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#48
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Thanks for that feedback. Great experiment and great sounding guitars. As you've said, too -- very nice playing as well! Regards, Glenn |
#49
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#50
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I recently bought a Guild D50 with an adi top. The D55 is supposedly identlcally built with Sitka top and more bling. I played both of these together in several stores, and the difference is quite noticeable. There's a reason the D50 is called a bluegrass special, it;s a great flatpicking guitar, and LOUD. The D55 is warmer and each string is less defined.
One is not better than the other, they're just different. Ideally you'd want one of each. Oh, the D50 is less costly the the D55, which of course has more bling. Viva la difference
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#51
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I was especially interested in the description of the Common Grade as being the "acoustic equal to the higher grades". There are always folks on these forums posturing about how they don't give a hoot about what the appearance of a guitar since it is "all about tone", and, "you don't play the guitar with your eyes". I wonder how many of those folks would settle for a common grade top? I also think it is interesting that, it would appear, most of the expense of this wood comes simply from the difficulty in securing it rather than any superior acoustic properties. My read on this topic is, is Adi worth paying more for? Since most would agree with the statement made several times throughout this thread that it is the builder that makes the difference, where does that leave consumers of factory built guitars? Since this thread has cast a great deal of doubt on whether or not you are even getting an "Adi" top when you shell out extra for it, and, even if it is "Adi", is it a good piece of "Adi", or, as described above, a disapointing piece, and a factory built guitar is going to marry the next body coming down the line to the next top on the stack, the answer to the OP question of "Is Adi better" has got to be, for a factory built guitar, probably not. For a handbuilt guitar, probably yes given that your builder knows what she/he is doing. LC
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#52
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I'd invite you to play Guild's D50 and D55 side by side to make that comparison. I hear quite a bit of difference.
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Fred The secret to life is enjoying the passage of time. |
#53
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#54
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Due to the kindness of Ted Davis, I now have a lifetime supply of red spruce. But if red spruce had not been available, I would be seeking all the Carpathian, Austrian Alpine, and Italian spruce I could find, as well as using more of the Engelmann I acquired in the 1980's. Sitka is, and will continue to be, near the bottom of my list of top woods. Quote:
Red spruce is very much like the other non-Sitka spruces, in that the trees are small, with many defects. The cost of cutting it the correct way (from split billets) is much the same as Euro, Engelmann, or Carpathian. And the cost of 'bringing the logs home' is miniscule, when compared with the price of the tops obtained from an average log. The nearest red spruce to Fulton, Missouri is probably 500 miles, and much of Old Standard's red spruce comes from twice that far away. Even so, their pricing is 'right in the middle' of the market, because they are in the business of supplying a lot of red spruce to all the guitar makers. The only thing I would disagree with in their writeup is the market for red spruce mandolin tops, which I have found to be very, very strong. Quote:
Last edited by John Arnold; 04-24-2009 at 10:39 PM. |
#55
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Seriously though, there are some of us who have nothing invested in having a guitar with the tightest grain lines on the block, or the purest white, or whatever. Personally, I'm not very interested in spectacular woods. Oh, on a voyueuristic level, it's fun to look at, but honestly, I'm too cheap to pay for it, especially when it has nothing to do with how a guitar sounds. I'd much rather have someone like John Arnold or Tim McKNight or John Mayes or any one of the other great builders who post here pick out what they think is the best wood from a tonal perspective, no matter what it looks like. Good design doesn't rely on perfect materials to be successful. Anyone of them will build a beautiful guitar regardless of the cosmetic grade of the top or back woods used. Honestly, I think people do themselves and the luthiers involved a disservice by obsessing so much over the visual aspects of woods. On the other hand, if you want to pay for it, more power to ya. D. |
#56
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My sitka OM-18V is brighter than adi 000-18GE
You can read everywhere that sitka is warmer in tone compared to adirondack which is said to be brighter and crisper. I recently took the chance and bought a used OM-18V. A friend of mine owns a 000-18GE with adi top of which I thought is the best Martin OM/000 I've ever heard. So, I couldn't wait to compare the two. And to my (and my friend's) surprise the OM-18V with its sitka top sounded much brighter than the the adi topped 000-18GE which sounded dark and bassy in comparison. Although I liked the full and warm tone of the GE better for strumming the 18V excelled for picking - at least for my taste.
Does anybody have similar experiences? What could be the reason for this phenomena? Ta, Rank |
#57
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I'm not going to compare my Silver Creek T-160 to the higher grade of guitars discussed here, but I've wondered how, if at all, the graininess of its top contributes to what I really find appealing about its tone. I'm awful at describing tone, but this one sounds fuller, more open, and less boxy than the several others I've owned/played....
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#58
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Zombie thread back from the dead.
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http://www.acousticguitar.com/ubbcgi...1;t=029843;p=1 I am of the same opinion as luthier Rick Turner; "Once again, don't ascribe particular qualities only to certain wood species. As Al has noted, there is tremendous overlap from one species of spruce to another in terms of the measureable qualities...stiffness along or across the grain, density, damping characteristics, etc. Yes, the average for one type may be a bit this way or that way from the others, and hence we wind up with all this Adirondack vs. Sitka vs. Englemann, etc. debate, but it's about each individual piece of wood. But all this happens with side and back wood, too. I've seen a lot of pretty spongy Indian rosewood...stuff that had higher damping that a lot of mahogany or maple, yet it was "rosewood"...ooooooh! Non-luthiers (and more than a few luthiers...) want definitive definitions for these various woods; they want to buy into a belief system that is rigidly compartmentalized with regard to names and wood species. Sorry...it's all very fuzzy borders with lots of overlap. The rest is marketing..."
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#59
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I'm wondering if there's a parallel with the very fine and sometimes obsessive distinctions and pronouncements we make on small differences between some guitars! |
#60
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Emerald X20 Emerald X20-12 Fender Robert Cray Stratocaster Martin D18 Ambertone Martin 000-15sm |