Interesting option for K&K fans

Mbroady · #1 07-22-2016, 04:56 AM

I sent a query to MISI in regards to the compatibility between their battery free preamp and a K&K dual source (mini and mic) set up. Response is below.
I would be interested in getting opinions on this set up.
The only down side I can see is the lack of onboard/local EQ

"Thanks for your interest in our products and technology.

Yes, we can modify our preamp to work with K&K pickups. We did it a number of times as custom projects for some of our customers.
Powering up their internal mic, on the other hand, would be a problem because of its power consumption.

However, in about two weeks we will have our dual source system available with our own built in internal MEMS mic.
Let me know if you are interested in modifying this system for K&K.
Yes, this system gets two separate volume controls – one for mic, one for piezo.

The price for modified system is $170 S/H included. Price of the power charger is included."

Mbroady · #2 07-23-2016, 10:59 AM

Just bumping this up to see if any one has an opinion or has experience with a modified Misi pre for a K&K mini

guitaniac · #3 07-23-2016, 02:20 PM

Thanks for the heads-up. The MEMS mic sounds interesting.

Its been years since I've corresponded with the MiSi folks, but I recall that the head engineer Mihkal (SP?) was very helpful at the time.

martingitdave · #4 08-09-2016, 07:13 AM

I am VERY interested in this option. I emailed Mi-Si to follow up. I really like the idea! I'm also I retested in their CUTLESS product.

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Mbroady · #5 08-09-2016, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martingitdave

I am VERY interested in this option. I emailed Mi-Si to follow up. I really like the idea! I'm also I retested in their CUTLESS product.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

In my last communication with Misi (Mikial) they stated that....... "One very important thing and it may make the whole thing impossible – I don’t know the phase relationship between K&K pickup and our mic.
I need to figure it out before we go with this project."

So it might not happen, or it might take a while for it to happen.

The other option that I am also waiting on is for K&K to come out with the dual source sound hole pre that would work for both the mic and mini. I like the idea/convenience of "on the fly" EQ adjustments, but it will still mean a battery in the guitar.

martingitdave · #6 08-09-2016, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbroady

In my last communication with Misi (Mikial) they stated that....... "One very important thing and it may make the whole thing impossible – I don’t know the phase relationship between K&K pickup and our mic.
I need to figure it out before we go with this project."

So it might not happen, or it might take a while for it to happen.

The other option that I am also waiting on is for K&K to come out with the dual source sound hole pre that would work for both the mic and mini.

I have the sound hole pre for the k&k mini. It sounds very good but it does not fit very well with the Marquis bracing around the sound hole. I am retisant to make any additional mods to it. So, I like the idea of the MiSi pre being attached to the end block. And the MEMS mic is a bonus. I would also take the cutless product since phase match is not critical for a single source.

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martingitdave · #7 08-09-2016, 11:54 AM

So, I gave a listen to the samples on the Mi-Si site. The MEMS mic sounds a lot like other internal mics placed deep inside the body. So, there is nothing overly distinct in terms of tone. I would think that the larger the guitar, the more boomy it will be. As such, I would think the Misi Air solution would probably need the K&K or UST to be coupled with it. In essence, you would probably get results similar to the LR Baggs Anthem. However, the K&K with the MEMS would be a low impact solution that could get some good tone without batteries. At this point, I think I'm more interested in their CUTLESS solution if they can pair it with the K&K. I don't have a need for more than four hours between charges. And, if I did, I could take a 2 minute break to charge the capacitors. Lastly, it remembers the EQ settings, so unless you need to use the phase switch at a gig, you can probably leave the remote on your guitar case.

Paging Doug Young!

Vancebo · #8 08-09-2016, 12:22 PM

Teddy Randazzo pairs the misi preamp with his Dazzo pickup and he gets excellent results. The Dazzo is similar to the KandK. The misi Jack is modified in some way to pair well with his Dazzo. He uses the volume and tone wheel option. Should work well with the minis too.

hotroad · #9 08-10-2016, 06:32 PM

And a note about internal mics. The placement of the mic inside the guitar is very critical to the tone you get. You can move a good internal mic just one inch one way or the other and get very different tone. In my recent acquisition of a Gibson J185, which I am loving, my DPA 4061 is suspended about one inch from the face and one inch from the bottom of the upper bout just down from the sound hole. After many attempts, thats where I get the awesome range of tone from clear highs to strong lows. But every guitar is different referenced by my Charis SJ. If the 4061 is placed in the exact location as my Gibson, the tone is terrible. Move it a few inches and the tone is fabulous. Woods make a difference. Body shapes make a difference. Body depths make a difference. Other pickups being used make a difference. And of course the outboard gear like eq and amp make a huge difference. Hope this adds to the conversation.

Doug Young · #10 08-10-2016, 09:28 PM

I find internal mics to be basically ambiguous with respect to phase of a pickup. The signals are so different that trying to correlate them is nearly meaningless. I've used the polarity switch and I've used the Little Labs IBP to adjust phase at finer levels. With two (non-mic) pickups, I've found these can make a difference, but with an internal mic it just doesn't matter. Unscientifically, I think of it as the sound bouncing around so much for an internal mic, that the phase is all over the map. To some extent, what you're trying to do when you blend in a mic is introduce complexity that is missing from the direct sound of a pickup. Part of that complexity comes from phase variations. You'd definitely want to check that blending in a mic doesn't make things sound worse, which could be due to phase cancellation, of course. But I've never had a problem with this, adding a mic to any source - it always adds something positive to the sound. And you have a fair bit of flexibility with where you place the mic, which can alter any phase relationships, too.

martingitdave · #11 08-10-2016, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I find internal mics to be basically ambiguous with respect to phase of a pickup. The signals are so different that trying to correlate them is nearly meaningless. I've used the polarity switch and I've used the Little Labs IBP to adjust phase at finer levels. With two (non-mic) pickups, I've found these can make a difference, but with an internal mic it just doesn't matter. Unscientifically, I think of it as the sound bouncing around so much for an internal mic, that the phase is all over the map. To some extent, what you're trying to do when you blend in a mic is introduce complexity that is missing from the direct sound of a pickup. Part of that complexity comes from phase variations. You'd definitely want to check that blending in a mic doesn't make things sound worse, which could be due to phase cancellation, of course. But I've never had a problem with this, adding a mic to any source - it always adds something positive to the sound. And you have a fair bit of flexibility with where you place the mic, which can alter any phase relationships, too.

Thanks Doug, that's the kind of information I was looking for. I'll ask him to alter the mi-si for the K&K capacitance and ignore the MEMS mic phase issue.

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Doug Young · #12 08-10-2016, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Thanks Doug, that's the kind of information I was looking for. I'll ask him to alter the mi-si for the K&K capacitance and ignore the MEMS mic phase issue.

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The MEMS mic might be a different beast. The only one I have experience with is the iRig mic, and I never tried to combine that with another pickup.

It's nice to hear that they are willing to try this, tho. I asked them a few years back, and got a response that mics in guitars were a bad idea :-)

martingitdave · #13 08-10-2016, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Young

The MEMS mic might be a different beast. The only one I have experience with is the iRig mic, and I never tried to combine that with another pickup.

It's nice to hear that they are willing to try this, tho. I asked them a few years back, and got a response that mics in guitars were a bad idea :-)

Oh, maybe it is an issue.

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Mbroady · #14 08-11-2016, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martingitdave

I am VERY interested in this option. I emailed Mi-Si to follow up. I really like the idea! I'm also I retested in their CUTLESS product.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Have you heard back from MISI

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Young

The MEMS mic might be a different beast. The only one I have experience with is the iRig mic, and I never tried to combine that with another pickup.

It's nice to hear that they are willing to try this, tho. I asked them a few years back, and got a response that mics in guitars were a bad idea :-)

Hey Doug

What was your experience with the Irig. Did you try it in a live application, and if yes, was is direct or through the software?

martingitdave · #15 08-11-2016, 05:25 AM

Yes, he responded with essentially the same response to you. It appears there is a redesign in the works for the cutless product. I've asked him for the price of a Air/K&K unit. He wants to figure out the phase switch for the internal mic first. So, I'll stick with my K&K until further notice. Are there any other end pin preamps out there that work with k&k?

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