The Golden Age of Budget Guitars

[AmericanEagle]

Originally Posted by Captaincranky

Maybe they're following China's template and trying to breed themselves into world domination.
.

so much for the 'only 1 child per family' government rule in China

[rogthefrog]

China = 1.35 billion
India = 1.27 billion
Pakistan = 180 million

India + Pakistan = 1.45 billion

[Charmed Life Picks]

Bit, totally agree. With the advent of CNC manufacturer and laser accuracy, it is now possible to cut wood to the closest possible tolerances. That alone has changed the game.

I honestly don't think any manufacturer on the planet makes a finer guitar at any price point than Yamaha. Their quality is legendary and stunning.

I've posted this before, but for anyone interested here's a ten-minute tour of one of Yamaha's plant in China. Quite a treat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpTdU3mhZW0

They make 500,000 (!) guitars a year in this one plant. Very impressive, indeed.

Someone told me recently that the company is still privately held and run by the original founding family. This might explain their obsession with quality, whether guitars, clarinets, motorcycles, concert pianos, waverunners. What a company.

I owe a Martin, an Eastman, several Epi Masterbilts, etc., but I'm also very proud to own and play several Yamahas.

Charmed Life

[Jerry D]

Originally Posted by charmedlife417

I honestly don't think any manufacturer on the planet makes a finer guitar at any price point than Yamaha. Their quality is legendary and stunning.

I'm about to join this camp. I bought a Yamaha LL6R about ten days ago, and it is a beautiful instrument. It really is just as good a guitar as my Taylor 314ce, and the Yamaha's street price is over a thousand dollars less!

[Captaincranky]

Originally Posted by rogthefrog

China = 1.35 billion
India = 1.27 billion
Pakistan = 180 million

India + Pakistan = 1.45 billion

`Surely you realize by now, I just guess, and go with that. As awful as it must seem to you, I'm fully prepared fot the "other guy" to be right, if he takes the time to do the research.

As recently as the beginning of WWII, Japan actually pushed big bad China around., (just a factoid).

What does interesting to me is, why did the worlds latest, and possibly largest ever, industrial revolution fall pretty much to China, along with Korea and the rest of the Pac Rim as opposed to the other suggestions that have been made?

Bangladesh, Pakistan, & India being are as poor as they are, what cultural or political factors, have denied them access to the opportunity for a share of the affluence China has garnered.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by Jerry D

I'm about to join this camp. I bought a Yamaha LL6R about ten days ago, and it is a beautiful instrument. It really is just as good a guitar as my Taylor 314ce, and the Yamaha's street price is over a thousand dollars less!

Congrats, Jerry, and welcome to the Yamaha club. You won't be disappointed.

Did you buy the new model with the ARE technology in it? I played one of those and they are very slick.

CL

[dawhealer]

Originally Posted by Mark Stone

The Alvarez guitars coming out of Japan at that time were being hand-built in Kani by Kazuo Yairi - it would be more honest to equate them with anything in the $2000 to $2500 range today rather than $300. K Yairi was a master and the exception to many rules. I know - I've owned one for over 36 years.

I have a 1976 K. Yairi classical that I bought pre-owned in 1980. I paid $350 for it at the time and felt like I got a pretty good deal. I think it sold new for somewhere around $550 in '76. Laminated BR B/S, solid cedar top. All wood binding, inlaid rosetter that copies a Ramirez (I've actually had Ramirez players mistake it for one). Sweet guitar. If that guitar were new today it would sell for about $2,270, putting the price I paid for it pre-owned in 1980 equal to $997 today at the current rate of inflation.

My '73 Alvarez J-200 clone is all laminate and I bought it because it sounded better than the '73 Gibson J-200 I played it against. I paid something like $250 or $275 for it back in '73. One of the big selling points was that it was all handmade. That guitar would be about $1450 today and still a good sounding guitar despite its age.

After 42 years with one and 35 years with the other I totally agree with you that the K. Yairi built guitars of that era (both the ones with the Yairi name AND the Alvarez name) are exceptions to many rules.

I'm going to have to try out some of the names I'm hearing here on the forum. Younger friends and friends my age often ask me to recommend good guitars that won't break the bank and I may need to revisit some previously held ideas.

[dawhealer]

Originally Posted by Fatstrat

That's what I thought. Not all 1970's Alvarez guitars are Yari's.

That's right, they weren't technically Yairi's, but many were made in the shop of Kazuo Yairi under his supervision even though they didn't bear his name.

[Gmountain]

Originally Posted by Captaincranky

`

What does interesting to me is, why did the worlds latest, and possibly largest ever, industrial revolution fall pretty much to China, along with Korea and the rest of the Pac Rim as opposed to the other suggestions that have been made?

Bangladesh, Pakistan, & India being are as poor as they are, what cultural or political factors, have denied them access to the opportunity for a share of the affluence China has garnered.

China, Japan and Korea had a long history (thousands of years) as orderly, advanced, and educated societies. Japan and Korea benefited from American occupation after the wars, but they had a history of manufacturing, and a culture where work was valued. China benefited from the same history, but also from forced communist modernization, along with having plenty of raw materials. China's economy didn't take off though, until communism was "adjusted" and the US market opened up.

[leatherguy]

Originally Posted by charmedlife417

I honestly don't think any manufacturer on the planet makes a finer guitar at any price point than Yamaha. Their quality is legendary and stunning.

I totally agree, although I can only speak to MY price point...I've tried several brands, and have found that Yamaha blows them all away.
I've been in search of the right 000 size for me for the last couple years.
I've come back to the FS720s...bought one last week. While it's a bit deeper than a true 000, I prefer the more dred like tone of it.....awesome guitar.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by Captaincranky

As a point of fact, once upon a time, "made in Japan", was a cruel joke regardless of the product involved.

Japanese workers, in the same way as American workers, advanced their cause drawing ever higher wages.

Their dominance in the electronics industry is legendary. However, going back as far as four decades ago, their companies were no longer able to produce their full lines on the Japanese mainland.

You would see something like a flagship audio receiver with, "Made in Japan", proudly stamped on the box. When you got to the 20 watt a side promo piece, it's box would say, "Made in Singapore", or elsewhere.

The Japanese can no longer afford to have their full line guitar product made at home either. So, Ibanez acoustics now come mostly from either China or Indonesia.

These chains of events are typical of an "industrial revolution", no matter where the geographical location may be.

Everybody busts their hump for low wages, as the shift from agrarian to industrial society takes place.

But keep in mind, China is the last potential massive labor pool on the planet. Where's next in the search for affordable instruments...?

Cranky, I see matters in the same way as you. This is just simple world economics. Since the end of the great plague which made serfs with labouring skills aware that they could charge for their work, we have constantly revalued the contract between employer and employee.

In recent times the west has paid itself too much, whilst becoming ever more dedicated to consumerism, and we have had to transfer basic labour and manufacturing to other countries. Initially, the British , Spanish and Dutch Empires "recruited" slaves and convicts, then sought other forms of cheap labour and those countries with lower standards of living readily took up the challenge.

After WW2 - many countries were destroyed, and had to rebuild from scratch. European countries all reacted differently - partly dependent upon war debts (which delayed the UK's economic revival and boosted that of the US). Germany was considerably aided by the Allies (possibly due to its being so adjacent to the Iron Curtain) and despite being in an appalling situation has rebuilt well. Japan had been destroyed but their pride and determination remained and they did all they could to trade.
China did not go unaffected but were restricted by their politics.
However, they watched Japans rise ...and how they fell victim to Western consumerism and how they priced themselves out of certain markets.
It only remains to see if China will be able to resist western consumerism. I think that due to their size and numbers it will take far longer.

The Indian sub-continent cannot be underestimated, (think Tata) and South Korea are doing very well.

There are still many countries who have not yet fulfilled their economic potential - BRIC nations obviously, but if their politics could be stabilised - North, middle and south Africa, South America, etc. etc.

Who knows - maybe we'll all be clamouring for Zimbawean and Pakistani guitars in years to come?

[GangstaPat]

Originally Posted by Jerry D

I'm about to join this camp. I bought a Yamaha LL6R about ten days ago, and it is a beautiful instrument. It really is just as good a guitar as my Taylor 314ce, and the Yamaha's street price is over a thousand dollars less!

Now you are really sayin someythin my friend. I believe in Yamaha too and have owned one of their guitars that made it's way into a nephews hands. But you are saying it rivals the Taylor 314? I'm making my way to a Guitar Denter as soon as possible to check one out for myself.

[ukejon]

Originally Posted by GangstaPat

Now you are really sayin someythin my friend. I believe in Yamaha too and have owned one of their guitars that made it's way into a nephews hands. But you are saying it rivals the Taylor 314? I'm making my way to a Guitar Denter as soon as possible to check one out for myself.

"Guitar Denter".....That is the perfect typo!

[Jerry D]

Originally Posted by charmedlife417

Congrats, Jerry, and welcome to the Yamaha club. You won't be disappointed.

Did you buy the new model with the ARE technology in it? I played one of those and they are very slick.

Originally Posted by GangstaPat

Now you are really sayin someythin my friend. I believe in Yamaha too and have owned one of their guitars that made it's way into a nephews hands. But you are saying it rivals the Taylor 314? I'm making my way to a Guitar Denter as soon as possible to check one out for myself.

Yes, Charmed, it's the new one with ARE.

Pat: I think it sounds every bit as good as my 314CE, even seems better in the midrange and trebles (even though the Yamaha is laminated back and sides and the Taylor is all solid).

I like it better every day.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by GangstaPat

Now you are really sayin someythin my friend. I believe in Yamaha too and have owned one of their guitars that made it's way into a nephews hands. But you are saying it rivals the Taylor 314? I'm making my way to a Guitar Denter as soon as possible to check one out for myself.

I've never actually played a Taylor, but have no doubt they are very, very good. I would say the QC is every bit as good on Yammies vs anyone in the industry, but I don't know if I'd say Yamahas are BETTER than trhe big three. They should be in the conversation, though.