Cheeeeaaaaapppp me!

[MarvinLee]

OK, I've spent several weeks reading this forum, got a great deal of wonderful info and waded deeper into the experimentation. In the spirit of returning the favor, I wanted to share the current products of a cheap, cheap setup.

It goes something like this...

Old Mac Pro Laptop with Logic 9
Old Tascam Fireone
Old Mackie 1202
CHEAP CAD 2200 LDC mic (modified with a k7 capsule from microphone-parts.com)
CHEAP CAD 212 stereo pair SDC
OLD & CHEAP 1980 Ventura Dread

Recorded in my wife's walk-in closet.

Is it album quality? Nah, but it gets the point across and is available anytime I need it. Best part? I can focus on crafting the songs now, rather than monkeying with equipment. It's a really amazing time to be alive. Sure you can spend thousands getting that sound. Absolutely noble pursuit in my opinion. I love you guys that are doing this. But until I can produce something worth recording, I think it's much better to be as cheap as possible in my set-up.

Bottom line. I am a songwriter... not an engineer. That said, I can't ever recall a time in my life when this level of gear was commonly available. Simply amazing...

[rick-slo]

You can get a good sound cheap. However in your recording there are some problems, especially with the guitar sound. The guitar mikes were 180% out of phase.
I flipped the phase and the sound is better (not great though).

In the following clip of the guitar intro the first time through is as you had it, and for the second time through I flipped the phase to normal.
http://dcoombsguitar.com/Guitar%20Music/Temp/Veil.mp3

Unfortunately the vocal is out of phase with the guitar also. Could not fix that with the combined stereo track. If you have separate tracks for the guitar and vocal you can work on that issue.

[ocmcook]

wonderful full yet mellow sound. nice playing and singing.

[MarvinLee]

Many thanks rick-slo. I will go and do some reading. The guitar and the vocals were recorded separately. Guitar with a pair of SDC mics, the vocal with a single LDC mic. I assume the vocal was simulated stereo, as the reverb was added with mono>stereo selected (even though it didn't seem to create a second track).

Clearly, I am still learning, but I do appreciate your observations VERY much. Thank you!

[MarvinLee]

OK, going back and looking at the recording set up, I’m not sure how a phase error might occur. I see no settings on either the mic, the mixer or the interface that give any preference to phase. I’m wondering, perhaps, if it’s one of the XLR cables? They are of old and unknown origins and appear home made.

As for the phase relationship of the guitar track to the vocal track….

It was recorded mono on a LDC and “stereo” was created with the application of a mono>stereo effect. My assumption is that the phase was set (relative to the guitar track) by the mono signal? I’m supposing this could be an XLR issue as well?

For those still reading, I am posting an updated version of this track with the phase correction suggested by rick-slo (or at least my interpretation of what he said). I can definitely tell a difference in the sound. It should be noted that I also changed the EQ on the guitar (lowered the mid-cut) to what sounded good to my ear via headphones.

Lessons learned from this?

1. You’ll learn exponentially faster when you share your work.
2. Never assume anything is in phase.
3. A quick and easy way to test phase on a stereo signal (in logic 9) is to apply the “gain” effect, and click the mono switch. When I did this on the guitar track, it almost went silent from phase cancellation.
4. Derek Coombs knows his stuff.


Thanks again!

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by MarvinLee

OK, going back and looking at the recording set up, I’m not sure how a phase error might occur. I see no settings on either the mic, the mixer or the interface that give any preference to phase. I’m wondering, perhaps, if it’s one of the XLR cables? They are of old and unknown origins and appear home made.

Right, cables can be mis-wired. Even mics can be out of phase. I once bought a pair of mics from a well known manufacturer, not cheap, and the mics were wired out of phase.

When you do a mono->stereo thing with routing in a DAW, all that typically means is that it sends the mono signal equally to both sides of a stereo output. No tracks will be created (unless you bounce), but it will just route the signal to a stereo bus. If you're routing thru reverb, then the reverb itself may output a stereo sound for the reverb, but not the input. But it all depends on what your specific plugins and effects do.

There's still something funny sounding (phasey) about the guitar in the new mix. It could be what you want - a very effecty sort of sound, but if you're going for natural, it's not quite there yet.

It's a lot easier for people to check out your recordings (download them and load them into a DAW) if you post to soundcloud and make the files downloadable, rather than all the hoops one has to jump thru to get the audio from a your tube video.

Totally agree with your point about the possibilities for cheap recording. You can get even cheaper than your list and still get a remarkably good sound. Lots of people on AGF have posted very nice recordings using only a Zoom H2 ($99 new, less used), or using Audacity (free) on an old computer.

[MarvinLee]

Thanks for the observations Doug. Yes, there is an effect on the guitar. It has a light chorus on it. Perhaps it would be better with out? I'll play with it some more.

Am just starting to look into sound cloud. Appreciate the tip. Honestly, there is so, so many rabbit holes out there that I just haven't gotten to that one yet :-)

It is ridiculous how good the cheap stuff is these days. Most of what I had on my list has been with me for years now. Wasn't as cheap when I got it as it would be to pick up second hand now and it's still quite viable gear. Guess I was just feeling fortunate the other day and hoped to inspire others to look around and use what they have on hand.

Thank you for your input.

[Doug Young]

If you intended the chorus, ignore my comment, definitely an artistic choice. I just couldn't tell if it was deliberate or some issue.