Wider string spacing - saddle modification question

[klobasa]

EDIT: Please see post #7



Hi,

this is my first post. I was searching about this topic and found out answers that I felt were over complicated. I want to widen the string spacing at the saddle on my Yamaha LL6. I measured that I can widen it at least 4-5mm without strings getting too close to the side of fretboard.

On several other posts it seemed that mostly this kind of procedure would require filling and drilling new pin holes or replacing the bridge entirely. My first instinct was to make tiny slots/grooves to the saddle and let the string to rest there. And while doing this I checked the intonation for each string separately. I made this test with the current plastic saddle and it works perfectly. Next, I will do the same thing (with correctly measured string spacing. e.g. low e can be given even wider) to a bone saddle.

Or am I missing here something? Is it bad for the bridge or tone if the strings don't go in straight line?

[tadol]

That'll work - not ideal, but it will work. Just play it and enjoy it.

[Bax Burgess]

Might cutting the slots similar to a nut be beneficial, ramping towards pin in this case?

[gauchita]

The bridge is compensated for the different string thickness, By moving the strings , you will also alter the compensation , so you might have intonation problems .
At the nut , the strings are stopped at the point it enters the slot . The ideal, is the slots should be only half the stings thickness, in depth . This will ensure the sting is not trapped in the slot and cause buzzing and strings braking.
To pull the strings at an angle at the bridge , I believe it will possibly give you the same problems. But you don't have much to loose by trying .

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by gauchita

The bridge is compensated for the different string thickness, By moving the strings , you will also alter the compensation , so you might have intonation problems .
At the nut , the strings are stopped at the point it enters the slot . The ideal, is the slots should be only half the stings thickness, in depth . This will ensure the sting is not trapped in the slot and cause buzzing and strings braking.
To pull the strings at an angle at the bridge , I believe it will possibly give you the same problems. But you don't have much to loose by trying .

There should not be any significant intonation changes from the little distance the strings would be moved due to this operation. And to the OP, it won't have any significant negative impact on the guitar - tone or longevity.
Unlike the nut, the strings will not have to move across the saddle when tuning, so as long as the seating grooves are deep enough and the strings seat properly, you shouldn't have any issues.

[klobasa]

Thanks for replies.

I bought a bone blank and did the first test drive. I was able to widen the string spacing for 4,5mm and both E strings still sit perfectly on the fretboard. Finger picking is now very much easier.

No noises or intonation problems whatsoever.

[klobasa]

Hi again,

I have been thinking to modify the bridge that I can make the wider string spacing permanent. So that I can use normal non-slotted saddles. I really like the wider spacing. I need to fill the bridge holes and drill new ones, that I understand. I am not too familiar with acoustic guitar designs so I have a couple of questions:

1. Do I need to fill the existing holes with solid wood or would it be OK to fill them with mixture of epoxy and wood dust (e.g. rosewood, wenge or similar)?

2. Is the process done without removing the bridge from the guitar? If yes, do I fill the holes all the way through the bridge and top of the guitar? Wouldn't that make it very difficult to remove the bridge if needed someday?

[klobasa]

After getting more information, I think I will just fill the holes without removing the bridge and drill new ones with wider spacing. I don't know if I'm able to find ebony plugs, so my plan is to:

method #1:

Find maple (or other hard wood) plugs and put them all the way through the holes. I will plug them couple of millimeters deeper than the top of the bridge. After the plugs are glued, I will fill the rest couple of millimeters with ebony dust and superglue. The purpose of this is to make the work as invisible as possible.

After sanding etc. to drill new holes and be happy.

or method #2:

Fill the holes with epoxy + ebony dust mixture.

After sanding etc. to drill new holes and be happy.



Yes? No?

[phavriluk]

Depending on the skill and available tools, I think that it's possible to move holes a very little bit, but you're talking less than the hole diameter at the E strings, less on the next inner pair, and I-don't-know-how-much for the innermost pair. Keeping the drill bits centered in the 'new' holes will be a bit of an adventure. And you've got to consider what's going on at the bridge plate, where the strings will roost. I'd sure be experimenting on another bridge not mounted on the guitar first before I started altering the existing bridge in place. Without my having any experience in the matter, these opinons are just that...consider making up a new bridge with the right holes and swapping bridges. Lots more straightforward and I suspect faster. A discussion with a 'real' luthier is in order.

[klobasa]

Yes, if I would fill the holes and redrill them, I would need to use template that the drill would stay firmly at the correct spot.

The bridge did not have those slots that go from pinhole towards the saddle. I took a saw and made the slots in a slight angle. This also helped to get a little bit better string angle. Now the string spacing is 46,5mm (normally it's 42mm). That was easy... Maybe I have to rethink about the drilling in few years if the strings eat through the ebony, but I guess the problem is now fixed.

Thanks for help!

[John Arnold]

Slotting the bridge, or filling the existing slots and reslotting, is a method I have used a few times to alter string spacing. Ebony is very hard, and the slots won't wear for a very long time.
One bonus is that with a slotted bridge, you can use unslotted bridge pins, which will last forever.
The problem with filling the pin holes and redrilling the bridge on the guitar is getting the holes straight and evenly-spaced. That is why I have only done it by removing the bridge and doing the redrilling in a drill press. However, with the bridge off, it is usually easier just to make a whole new bridge.

[D string]

I have been filing slots in a guitar saddles for years and never had any problems at all. Think ...Violin, Banjo, Mandolin and other instruments which are off set from the saddle/bridge when they are made. Over a period of time, your strings will file their own slots in the saddle.

[klobasa]

Here is a close up of the modified bridge. You can see that the work almost invisible. There is a hidden groove on the wood which moves the strings a little bit sideways to make the string spacing wider. Worked perfectly...