Elderly with no kids

[catdaddy]

As a pharmacist I worked and interacted with a largely geriatric population for more than 35 years. My conclusion about aging with or without having children is that it's a coin toss. I saw elderly folks who were comforted, and had their later lives enriched by the presence and support of their loving children. I saw others whose later years were filled with emotional stress and regret because of rejection or abandonment by their estranged offspring.

For those who were childless there was a similar spectrum. Some folks were living productive and fulfilling lives through a wide variety of strategies that included things such as a close circle of friends, volunteer work, hobbies, etc. Others wallowed in a world filled with regret and self-pity for a multitude of reasons.

In short I saw no guarantees, no absolutes either with or without children.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by RedJoker

Just out of curiosity, did they actually tell you that they didn't have kids just so they could have more money? Do you think if only they had kids, their lives would be more meaningful and fulfilling?

I only ask because, since I don't have kids, I have to deal with similarly huge (and wrong) assumptions made about me. Maybe it's true for them, I don't know what they've told you.

There are some significant misplaced societal myths surrounding child bearing/rearing
And arguably the two of the biggest are the notions that having children is somehow a noble or selfless gesture, or life fulfilling.
While having children can involve looking beyond self interest and can have character building elements to it and be life affirming.
Those things are by no stretch of reality inherent within what is objectively, simply acting on a biological urge.
Life is what you make out of it, and comes with no preset protocol for happiness or fulfilment.

[Neil K Walk]

Originally Posted by RedJoker

Just out of curiosity, did they actually tell you that they didn't have kids just so they could have more money? Do you think if only they had kids, their lives would be more meaningful and fulfilling?

I only ask because, since I don't have kids, I have to deal with similarly huge (and wrong) assumptions made about me. Maybe it's true for them, I don't know what they've told you.

Well, as my cousins live 3000 miles away and I have only talked to them a handful of times in the past 20 years I couldn't say what they believe in. Quite frankly, I feel like conflicts with their father during their youth hardened them against the idea of having kids. They have lived enjoyable lives for themselves and still have had financial hardships. They went on to be quite outgoing but I don't feel that they are people who I could count upon for any amount of emotional support. Now that my aunt and uncle are in their 80s with declining physical and mental health the tables have turned and they are now taking care of them. Perhaps they will learn some of the lessons that young parents learn. I won't be waiting by my mailbox for any Christmas cards. It's not that I hate or resent them, it's just that there's no emotional bond whatsoever.

As for me, I'm an OREO: stuck in the middle of two generations who need my support. I've long worried that my surviving parent will outlive her money without family nearby to offer emotional support but recent developments have somewhat lifted the burden of those worries. OTOH I also have one offspring with special needs who we do not expect to have the competence to ever be able to live independently. We have another who is younger and has suffered emotionally through an extreme form of sibling rivalry, filling me with worry that both will live lives devoid of any sort of empathy to fulfill them emotionally.

That being said, what fuels my desire to contribute and not run away is the memory of seeing my children come into this world and sharing their victories and defeats and looking back at my own experiences as a child to gain a better understanding of my parents' perspectives. I admit that I could be a better parent and perhaps I'm a bit "clingy" at times, but there's something to be said about experiencing the unconditional love of a child (something that I've seen people try to substitute with through the personification of pets BTW) as opposed to the conditional admiration of other "adults" - both of whom may be selfish.

[RedJoker]

Originally Posted by Neil K Walk

... but there's something to be said about experiencing the unconditional love of a child (something that I've seen people try to substitute with through the personification of pets BTW) as opposed to the conditional admiration of other "adults" - both of whom may be selfish.

This reminds me of something funny. We have a lot of animals and do a lot of volunteer work for a local shelter. I was in a conversation with a co-worker and she was chastising me for not having kids and said something along the same lines as what you posted. In her case, she was being very judgmental and almost angry that I didn't have kids. It was her assessment that I was obviously trying to use animals to fill what could only be a sad existence of a life without kids. I then pointed out that most of our work was with the local WILDLIFE shelter. Skunks / raccoons / possums / raptors / etc. aren't exactly the cuddly creatures she assumed they were.

[fitness1]

Originally Posted by Neil K Walk

Now that my aunt and uncle are in their 80s with declining physical and mental health the tables have turned and they are now taking care of them. Perhaps they will learn some of the lessons that young parents learn..

Your aunt and uncle are fortunate that your cousins are available to take care of them, and when you are free to do so, it certainly helps. As you well know, having your own family that is dependent on you can limit your availability to an ailing parent, even if they live close by.

I just went through the most taxing year of my life by about a factor of ten. I was able to do what I did BECAUSE I don't have my own family. If I had made those choices, I certainly wouldn't have been able to be available nearly 24/7 for my parents, and continue to be now even after my Dad's passing.

Things happen for a reason in this life, and in retrospect I'm so thankful that because of my choices I was able to be with my Dad so much and do everything I possibly could for him.

Don't discount your cousin's choices - it seems that it has worked out wonderfully.

[SMan]

Pity, Money, Selfish? Wow. Its funny the assumptions made about others decisions. In the final analysis the decision to not have kids came down to having a congenital heart defect and not wanting to pass it on to a child.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by RedJoker

This reminds me of something funny. We have a lot of animals and do a lot of volunteer work for a local shelter. I was in a conversation with a co-worker and she was chastising me for not having kids and said something along the same lines as what you posted. In her case, she was being very judgmental and almost angry that I didn't have kids. It was her assessment that I was obviously trying to use animals to fill what could only be a sad existence of a life without kids. I then pointed out that most of our work was with the local WILDLIFE shelter. Skunks / raccoons / possums / raptors / etc. aren't exactly the cuddly creatures she assumed they were.

Which speaks directly to the power of the mythology. And the irony being that arguably far more often the reverse is true. People having children to compensate for a deficiency within their own personal life or marriage.
Which unfortunately can often result in backfiring and not only has negative effects on the would-be parents lives , but sadly on the offsprings lives as well.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by KevWind

There are some significant misplaced societal myths surrounding child bearing/rearing
And arguably the two of the biggest are the notions that having children is somehow a noble or selfless gesture, or life fulfilling.
While having children can involve looking beyond self interest and can have character building elements to it and be life affirming.
Those things are by no stretch of reality inherent within what is objectively, simply acting on a biological urge.
Life is what you make out of it, and comes with no preset protocol for happiness or fulfilment.

Wow. Well, we certainly disagree on that.
Unfortunately, I can't elaborate.

[fitness1]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Which speaks directly to the power of the mythology. And the irony being that arguably far more often the reverse is true. People having children to compensate for a deficiency within their own personal life or marriage.
Which unfortunately can often result in backfiring and not only has negative effects on the would-be parents lives , but sadly on the offsprings lives as well.

I had an interesting discussion with a golf buddy about 10 years ago. Yoon was a 75 year old Korean man who was a physician in the VA system here in the states for almost 30 years. He and I had been playing a couple days a week minimum for a couple years and one day in the parking lot he asked me "You have wife and kids?" When I answered no he said "You SELFISH" and went on to let me have it.

When he was done I asked him if I would be more selfish if I had kids knowing that I wasn't really wired for it? What if I had kids because I thought it was what I was SUPPOSED to do and wasn't really sure if it was what I wanted?

I think the young man taught the wise old man a little lesson that day. The look on his face was priceless.

Something that many don't think about is that folks like myself have a "mission" to positively affect others kids as much as I can.....through my business and music I have done so quite a bit over the years. For a long time I had many developmentally and physically disabled clients and we had VERY strong bonds.

The kids you mentor and guide don't have to be your own.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

Wow. Well, we certainly disagree on that.
Unfortunately, I can't elaborate.

Subjectively anyone can disagree about anything. And I suppose one's belief system could restrict the ability discuss objectively .

BUT
Objectively it is hard to argue against progreation being an instinctual biological urge.
Objectively it's hard to argue that being a parent intrinsically guarantees selfless or noble behavior.
Objectively it's hard to argue that having a child guarantees, or is the only path to a fulfillment in life.
Which were the points in my post.

[6L6]

I feel incredibly fortunate to have my wife of 49 years, two daughters, and five grandkids. Best of all, we are all living within 20 minutes of each other and have a lot of fun.

Very lucky indeed.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by fitness1

I had an interesting discussion with a golf buddy about 10 years ago. Yoon was a 75 year old Korean man who was a physician in the VA system here in the states for almost 30 years. He and I had been playing a couple days a week minimum for a couple years and one day in the parking lot he asked me "You have wife and kids?" When I answered no he said "You SELFISH" and went on to let me have it.

When he was done I asked him if I would be more selfish if I had kids knowing that I wasn't really wired for it? What if I had kids because I thought it was what I was SUPPOSED to do and wasn't really sure if it was what I wanted?

I think the young man taught the wise old man a little lesson that day. The look on his face was priceless.

Something that many don't think about is that folks like myself have a "mission" to positively affect others kids as much as I can.....through my business and music I have done so quite a bit over the years. For a long time I had many developmentally and physically disabled clients and we had VERY strong bonds.

The kids you mentor and guide don't have to be your own.

Yes very true and a vary salient part of your statement is "Something that many don't think about" When it comes to parenthood there can be a number of things "many don't think about" or believe to be true without really thinking about it.

[Ozzy the dog]

Originally Posted by fitness1

The kids you mentor and guide don't have to be your own.

Love that.

Kids aren't for everyone.

I am immensely proud of my two sons and whilst it's nice to think they'll be there for me in my old age my biggest worry is that I will be a burden for them when I'm blowing bubbles.

I don't worry about their inheritance though - I've already spent that.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Subjectively anyone can disagree about anything. And I suppose one's belief system could restrict the ability discuss objectively .

BUT
Objectively it is hard to argue against progreation being an instinctual biological urge.
Objectively it's hard to argue that being a parent intrinsically guarantees selfless or noble behavior.
Objectively it's hard to argue that having a child guarantees, or is the only path to a fulfillment in life.
Which were the points in my post.

As I said, I can't elaborate and it wouldn't matter anyway.
I think we both know that and we can respectfully disagree.
For my part, I will do that.

[marty bradbury]

Originally Posted by fitness1

I will be alone as well. Not letting it bother me.

From the stories I heard at the nursing home Dad was in for 5 months (from workers and patients) most of the folks get very few visitors.

One lady my Mom and I have befriended has 3 sons that live within 25 miles and she rarely sees them.

Mom went in to feed Dad lunch every day, and I fed him dinner. The staff told us all the time how special that was.

In this day and age I don't think our elderly folks get near the respect they deserve, especially when they really need it.

I agree. I work in a skilled nursing facility and we are the residents support 80% of the time. When I worked at an Alzheimer facility it was even a higher percentage as less people made visits. Then there are other cultures where they take their parents in until the end.