searching for a small CF guitar that doesn't neck dive

wobblybob · #1 03-06-2018, 06:37 PM

I'm in the market, or at least starting to do some research on a smaller, comfortable carbon fiber guitar. One of the things that I'm looking for in this guitar is one that is not so prone to neck dive, that is the tendency of the headstock of a guitar to drop towards the floor. Some call it neck heavy. I have a Baby Taylor that is so neck heavy that as soon as you let the neck go it wants to drop towards the floor. I find this very annoying. I know that all guitars have some weight bias towards the headstock but it's extreme in the Baby Taylor such that I'm constantly fighting to hold the neck up. I know that using a wide strap can help (I have a Gibson SG Supreme bass after all!) but I don't want to deal with that on the guitar that I'm looking for now. The guitars that I've been doing the researching on are the Cargo, the Emerald X7 and the Blackbird Savoy. I've done a lot of searches on AGF but haven't found anything definitive if these 3 guitars that I'm looking at have a tendency to neck dive and i would appreciate some feedback from those that have experience with either of these. None of the stores in my area carry any of these guitars that I'm interested in so I would have to purchase it on faith with the hope that it's what I'm looking for. I can get a good idea of the sound of a guitar from videos and audio clips but it's hard to tell if a guitar might have a tendency to neck dive from the videos. I looked at some of the smaller Rainsong guitars but I don't think that I would like the flatter 20" fretboard radius that they have. My current favorite guitar that I have is a Waterloo WL-12 that has a 12" fretboard radius that I just love. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

#2 03-06-2018, 06:59 PM

Wob;

I think you are on the right track. I've had several cargos and never noticed any downward drift. Also, many of the Emeralds have hollow necks and no drift at all. I can't specifically recommend any particular guitar, but you've come to the right place for an answer. There are a number of people this forum who can give you some solid feedback. Good luck in your search!

Acousticado · #3 03-06-2018, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvanB

Wob;

I think you are on the right track. I've had several cargos and never noticed any downward drift. Also, many of the Emeralds have hollow necks and no drift at all. I can't specifically recommend any particular guitar, but you've come to the right place for an answer. There are a number of people this forum who can give you some solid feedback. Good luck in your search!

Evan, I agree about the Cargo. If I’m correct, although Emerald went through a period of hollow necks before they began installing truss rods, for some time they’ve all had solid necks. That said, I’m not sure if it’s solid CF or some other core material. The Savoy has a hollow neck with a soundport at the base of the headstock, and also has a truss rod. It is not neck heavy.

bsman · #4 03-06-2018, 07:12 PM

Can’t speak for the newer X7-OS series, but I have an old (2010) X7 w/out a trussrod, and there is zero tendency for the head to point down.

AZLiberty · #5 03-06-2018, 07:36 PM

My X7 is definitely neck heavy, not as bad as my Rainsong but not balanced like a wooden guitar either.

The two guitars I have played that were not neck heavy were the Blackbird Lucky 13 and Savoy.

I solved the neck heavy issue by tying my strap "hippy style" at the headstock.

Captain Jim · #6 03-06-2018, 08:34 PM

I own an X7 and have played the Cargo and Savoy. I did not notice any tendency for the neck to drop on any of those 3. I play my X7 daily and have zero issue with it feeling neck heavy. I use a strap, even when seated. I also find the X7 the most comfortable of those 3.

ac · #7 03-06-2018, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wobblybob

. . . . . I looked at some of the smaller Rainsong guitars but I don't think that I would like the flatter 20" fretboard radius that they have. My current favorite guitar that I have is a Waterloo WL-12 that has a 12" fretboard radius that I just love. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Emerald would likely build you a neck with a 12" fretboad radius and would also eliminate the truss rod on request since that is how they originally built their necks. They have built a number of custom electrics which I'm sure have similar radius.

There would be added cost for the radius but maybe you could see if the cost could be offset a bit by eliminating the cost of the truss rod to save weight. Just write them and they'll let you know. No one customizes as much as Emerald does.

jdinco · #8 03-07-2018, 09:13 AM

I agree with those fellas, I don't notice any neck dive on my Cargo or X7 so I think yo are on the right track. And welcome to the forum.

Steve Christens · #9 03-07-2018, 11:06 AM

I have an older X7-OS, with the hollow neck, and no truss rod. With a leather suede strap it is rock stable. But with a slick nylon strap it WILL neck dive if you take both hands off the guitar.

Earl49 · #10 03-07-2018, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Christens

.....With a leather suede strap it is rock stable. But with a slick nylon strap it WILL neck dive if you take both hands off the guitar.

This can probably be said about any guitar, unless you are using something on your body to add friction. I gave up on nylon straps a long time ago because of the slipperiness, using only fabric or leather now.

It also helps to have the guitar sitting on your left leg so it's CG is on top of you leg, rather than cantilevered out.

SprintBob · #11 03-07-2018, 11:47 AM

I’ve never noted any neck dive tendency with my Rainsong P-12, worth your consideration IMO.

Blunote · #12 03-07-2018, 02:26 PM

I received my Emerald X7 in August.

It has neck dive when it's hanging on a strap. Given that the whole guitar weighs only around 2.5 lbs, it's not difficult to deal with. Sitting with it in my lap, my arm tends to hold the guitar in place without any real effort.

But yeah, it's not well balanced.

wobblybob · #13 03-08-2018, 07:42 PM

Thanks everyone for your input and making me feel so welcome! This is a great forum. I apologize for not responding sooner but I've been away for a few days. Good input from all.

ac - Good point about Emerald possibly doing a 12" fretboard radius and no truss rod.

I'm guessing that carbon fiber guitars are so light that they tend to have some weight bias towards the headstock?

kramster · #14 03-08-2018, 07:55 PM

I put one of these stickers on a guitar head once... turns out it made it a wee heaver so no help...sigh...

tommyld · #15 03-08-2018, 08:11 PM

I've noticeably improved neck-heaviness in a few CF guitars (esp 12 strings) by just swapping out metal buttons for wood or plastic buttons.

The Savoy, even with its stock-plastic tuner buttons, is a tad headstock-heavy...it's not the worst I've experienced, but it does want to dive if not supported. The comparably-sized Lucky 13 doesn't dive and is very balanced in a lap...its heavier internal heel/brace keeps the weight really centered.