Regretting changes to my Tanglewood TW28 - did I do the wrong thing

[docwatsonfan]

I am experiencing "buyers remorse" because I may have spent too much on it. And now I am not sure if the changes were a step up. The sound is clear and sounds higher quality than before - but also "thinner". Before it was thicker, but less clear.

I'm with HHP on this !

a few more dollars, and problem solved!

my pick choice....... a Dunlop Tortex 1.14 pick for a warmer tone

[Mystery123]

I'll look at it the other way.
Assuming op is beginner, it's very hard to figure out small changes in sound quality.
So give it time.

Another aspect is our ears don't like new sound initially whether it's better or worse than before.
When I listen to $300 speakers and switch to Sonus Faber (3.5k) speakers, first few songs don't feel great as mind still remembers old speakers sound and is in comparison mode but after ears get used to, sound amazing.
So give it time.


Try heavier strings and picks as suggested.

[00-28]

I don't believe you made the wrong move here. I would give it more time to let your ear adjust to the changes and let your playing technique adjust to the guitar to bring out the most it has to offer. Sometimes our expectations are set on something different than what we get and our first impression is that is that it is not what we want. I like the changes you had done to your guitar. Slotting the pin holes is an improvement. A bone nut is not a big tone changer because once you fret a string the nut is out of play. The saddle is easy and cheap to change out and fun to experiment with. Have fun with your guitar and enjoy it, grow into it for a while. In a few months you will know if the changes were an improvement or not, but judging it now is too soon.

..............Mike

[ManyMartinMan]

Originally Posted by 00-28

I don't believe you made the wrong move here.....Mike

I agree. You likely needed a set up anyway. My suggestion would have been to do the set up. Get used to it, then if you wanted to, change out your nut and saddle later. Changing everything at once, and then not liking the change, makes it hard to know what change you don't like. I would find out what strings the tech installed and try others to see if they sound better to you. If you know what were on there, and you liked them, go back to them first and work from a baseline. I would also change my saddle back to the original. The nut likely won't change the tone and may be better cut than what was there. Remember there is nothing terminal about guitar changes as you can almost always go back to square one and start over.

One bit of advice I would offer for free is when buying a guitar buy the best guitar you can afford from the start. Also one you really like. That way you're starting out with something you're happy with for a while. Then after a month or two of getting used to the guitar get a set up and make any changes slowly so you don't overspend unnecessarily.

[guitargeak99]

Originally Posted by Seagull S6

Have the action raised some to bring back some of the bass.

I once lowered the action on a Seagull Folk size Guitar and it did change the sound. Not necessarily the tone, but the guitar wasn’t as loud or full.

I’ve always wondered what effect lowering the action has on volume.
Or if my situation was just an isolated case.

[tippy5]

When the string action gets real low the tone also thins out. You might just keep this one for super low string height songs?
There are many pro's that even go on stage with fret buzz. They know their guitar so well that they use less right hand on those "buzzy" areas. This enables them the freedom of fast changes that their sets require.

A lot of finger style setups are really low. Some Blues giants love to kill their sustain with super low string height. Good for ragtime and gypsy riffage.

You can thicken the signal electronically but that will require hundreds of dollars. Maybe work another 6 months and save? Then you will have the resources for thicker tone. Maybe get a nice 600$ Eastman or Blueridge? There are many utube vids on the top 10 guitars for $500 etc....

Tangelwood Up in Blue would probably need higher action.

[Pitar]

The things we learn aren't always free, but think of it as an investment like any other form of education.

The closer the strings are to the fretboard, the thinner sounding the guitar will be. Lessening the distance between the strings and the sound board has a proportional effect on the frequencies. Smaller distance, smaller sound, it's a rule of thumb. The construction needed to offset sound losses of low action would create a weaker sound box. Your exposure to the aspect of close action bears that out.

One response mentions heavier gauge strings. That might be the answer if your guitar positively responds to it. I'd try that. The alternative is to reverse the set-up to get the depth of sound back. A taller saddle may be the only change needed.

[ManyMartinMan]

Originally Posted by guitargeak99

..I’ve always wondered what effect lowering the action has on volume. Or if my situation was just an isolated case.

No. It's fairly typical.

[AZLiberty]

Originally Posted by jim1960

The OP didn't just pay for a setup. Part of his $120, probably half at least, went to the cost of replacing the saddle.
.

He had the Saddle and Nut both replaced. I figure saddles are cheap compared to the labor of properly filing a nut.

He has more clarity and less "fullness". I'd swap out the saddle back to the original plastic and see if that's the issue.

[guitar george]

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

You spent $120.00 on a $180.00 guitar to lower the action and hopefully improve the sound. Unfortunately, you now have a $180.00 guitar, with lower action, that doesn't sound any better than before.

[guitargeak99]

Originally Posted by AZLiberty

He had the Saddle and Nut both replaced. I figure saddles are cheap compared to the labor of properly filing a nut.

He has more clarity and less "fullness". I'd swap out the saddle back to the original plastic and see if that's the issue.

Right, and if it returns some of the “full sound” that he likes, then it points to the action being too low.
And if that’s the case, raise up the bone saddle.

[codecontra]

Still a relatively minor investment. Plus you are experimenting and learning what you like and don’t like.

[martingitdave]

It’s likely that if you were to replicate that identical setup on a different guitar you would get similar results. Perhaps you miss the tone provided by medium action? Your guitar tech should be able to make an ebony shim for that saddle and bring it up notch.

[sad99]

Originally Posted by guitar george

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

You spent $120.00 on a $180.00 guitar to lower the action and hopefully improve the sound. Unfortunately, you now have a $180.00 guitar, with lower action, that doesn't sound any better than before.

Actually, now he's got a $300 $180 guitar. Hmm, I think there's a song in there somewhere. Bottle Rockets, anyone?

As Codecontra said, still a pretty small investment for some valuable knowledge.

[jrb715]

Originally Posted by jim1960

You learned a life lesson and it only cost you a few hundred dollars. For some people, that lesson comes with a much bigger price tag, and in my life it certainly cost me more than $300.

Did you spend too much on that guitar? Yes, you did. And the reason is because you cheaped out when you bought the guitar. You've said as much in your post. And because you cheaped out on the guitar, you set yourself up to be intrigued when your luthier told you it could be made better, and now you have a guitar that you've sunk $300 into that's probably only worth about $120 on the used guitar market.

Learn form this. Cheaping out winds up costing more in the end. In my experience (not just with guitars, but with everything), there have been so many times I've cheaped out on something only to find myself having to re-buy it or replace it with a quality item later. Cheaping out has given me more headaches than I can count.

On the other hand, I've never once in my life ever regretted spending extra for quality. I've never looked at some item of quality and thought, "I spent way too much on that and I should have found something cheaper." For me, quality comes with no headaches and no regrets.

PS - I wouldn't sink anymore money into that guitar.

This is about as complete and considered a response as you need.

Just a couple of other thoughts:

1. If the luthier wasn't scamming you, it's likely that the guitar is genuinely improved technically and sonically, and that you simply miss what you are used to. If this is the case, and you keep the guitar, you will end up preferring the clarity of the new sound that should both improve your playing and offer you more sound choices.

2. If the luthier knew that he was working on a $180 guitar and still put in $120 worth of work without advising you that the work would not turn the guitar into a Martin, then I certainly wouldn't use him for any work in the future. This work shouldn't have been done unless you are in a serious love affair with the inexpensive guitar (which certainly happens).