Piezo pickup EQ'ing

[hat]

without getting into specific brands, what are the typical EQ settings (Bass/Mid/Treble) for getting a more realistic tone from a UST/SBT equipped acoustic?

[HotRodx14]

Best sounds I’ve gotten with a piezo are when using an IR. It helps take away the “piezoness” and make it sound more natural. As for the EQ, that has been highly dependent on the guitar itself and the room you are playing.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by hat

without getting into specific brands, what are the typical EQ settings (Bass/Mid/Treble) for getting a more realistic tone from a UST/SBT equipped acoustic?

Hi Tom

All pickups (piezo or otherwise), and all amps/PA systems are NOT created equal. The reason tone controls are adjustable is because systems and pickups are not the same.

And come to think of it, playing styles are pretty different too.

I find it best to have someone else listen and adjust while I play, and then switch places to tweak. Sometimes I hook up my looper and record a couple minutes music with different styles, then go out in front of the amp/PA to listen and adjust.





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[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by hat

without getting into specific brands, what are the typical EQ settings (Bass/Mid/Treble) for getting a more realistic tone from a UST/SBT equipped acoustic?

EQ requirements are very different for USTs and SBTs. With USTs you are usually trying to notch out upper midrange quack and 'soften the blow' of these as much as you can, with SBTS you tend to be scooping out the woofy lower mid range and bass end and maybe adding some top end sparkle. That's a generalisation and a lot depends on the guitar/amp/room plus whether you are solo or trying to sit within a mix

Its very difficult to be specific, its not as simple as typical Bass/mid/treble settings I'm afraid. A good preamp with parametric eq will help a lot whatever your situation.

[Monsum]

As others said it depends. And not just on a guitar or pickup but what your sound preferences are, for example there are many people who like more mids than me.
What I often do is to cut out about 6dB to 10dB of mid frequencies and this could be as low as 400Hz and as high and 1.2kHz for me. Just sweep the frequencies over and see what you like and what sounds best when blended with other instruments.
Adjust bass to taste and add some sparkle above 10kHz (only 2 or 3 dB) if needed.

[steve_mac]

You could buy the TC Helicon bodyrez pedal (it's in the Playacoustic but also available as a standalone) this takes a lot of the work out of improving the peizzo sound. I use it on my piezo equipped Hollowbody and easily get a very useable tone.

[hat]

All good advice, but I'm not looking for recommendations on a new pickup, DI box, or any of that - just basic set levels for a 'starting point' to get closer to a true acoustic sound from Piezo pickups.

[jonfields45]

I start with flat and adjust the treble to what sounds good for that venue (however 99% of the time I just leave it flat). If I am having feedback problems with floor monitors I might roll off the bass.

And let me be the first to say ToneDexter (an inside joke, if you were asking about a pickup I'd have to say K&K). I am a ToneDextor believer but don't use one for gigging.

[MrErikJ]

I second LJ and Jonny that it's a matter of instrument, pickup, available EQ, and the space you're in. I agree w/Jonny that SBTs and Mags often require a low-mid cut and USTs an upper mid-cut. If I had to generalize, people w/a K&K might do a cut around 700hz or lower and someone w/a Fishman Matrix might do a cut around 1-1.5khz. These are just broad generalizations of course.

I use a LB6 Dual Source by Baggs and find that running it through a TC Body Rez cuts some of the low-mid mud and applies a broad filter that evens out the dynamics. Depending on the room's acoustics, I might boost bass or treble but not usually both. I'll also sweep the midrange to see if there's anything honky that stands out in that room and cut with care. Care means "very slightly."

With most pickups, midrange tend to be the "problem" area as it's what seems most exaggerated. That said, it's also the range we're most able to perceive so if we cut them excessively, your sound becomes hollow and loses audibility. You walk the Razor's Edge when you start EQing your acoustic guitar.

[GuitarLuva]

You never mentioned what you're plugging it into. Audio interface? Mixer? I can tell you that an acoustic amp, such as the Fishman loudbox amps, are very good at eliminating piezo quack on their own, without even touching EQ.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by hat

without getting into specific brands, what are the typical EQ settings (Bass/Mid/Treble) for getting a more realistic tone from a UST/SBT equipped acoustic?

If you're feeding a piezo-based transducer into your amp you're already EQing.

The ultra-high impedance of the piezo material works very effectively with the capacitance of the cable that you use to make a VERY effective high pass filter. Once you suck the low end out of the signal you can't "EQ" what isn't there any longer.

Do yourself a favor and impedance match your transducer by using almost any pre-amp. There are oodles of topics here on AGF to explain this.

All the "EQ" suggestions in the world won't help you get back what you've already dismissed.

[Marty C]

Seems most of us want to cut some in the midrange. Why don't they just build this into the circuit of the pickup. To add some mid back would only involve a small percentage of us. I guess that would leave little or no market to sell EQ devices.

I am like Monsum. My cuts are in the same area.

Always works better to cut something than to add. IMHO.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Marty C

Seems most of us want to cut some in the midrange. Why don't they just build this into the circuit of the pickup. To add some mid back would only involve a small percentage of us. I guess that would leave little or no market to sell EQ devices.

I am like Monsum. My cuts are in the same area.

Always works better to cut something than to add. IMHO.

Exactly what comes out of your final stage of electronic to audible sound conversion process is determined by every single electronic modifier in the signal path. One man's perfume is another's poison, so it's ultimately best to let the end user decide what is to be added or subtracted to end up with the final desired sound characteristics.

Again, it's best to impedance match a piezo to whatever it is feeding (a simple FET follower circuit will do little to color the produced tone) and do any EQing later.

Throwing EQ circuits into a piezo transducer is going to be great for one user and totally color the tone in the wrong direction for the next user. The closest to proper impedance matching is most likely an end pin pre like the Fishman preamp jack. I personally opt for no batteries or electronics internally, so I port my piezos to any device that will impedance match as a floor pedal, using a 10' low capacitance cable preferably.

The hard and fast rule for piezo cabling is to have the pre as close to the transducer as possible, preferably within 18 inches to eliminate creating the high pass filter that results in producing the piezo "quack" in the first place.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by hat

All good advice, but I'm not looking for recommendations on a new pickup, DI box, or any of that - just basic set levels for a 'starting point' to get closer to a true acoustic sound from Piezo pickups.

But setting levels on what, and in what environment? It sounds like you may be simply asking how to set your onboard preamp tone controls for a factory fitted pickup system like a Fishman or something similar, yes?

I'm a bit confused why you say SBT/UST, do you have both installed? They respond very differently as I indicated in my previous post. So if you do have both some info on the system you are using would help.

But actually whatever you have, if this question really is just about how to set your onboard preamp controls the 'starting point' you ask for is flat (controls at 12 oclock or zero depending on your preamp), and from there use your ears to tweak each accordingly.

No one here is going to tell you to 'set your treble at 7 and your bass at 3' to get a better tone if that's what your after I'm afraid, it doesn't work like that. Its like me asking what do I need to add to this curry I've cooked to improve the flavour.

[Julian Mount]

What might be helpful is if I tell you what I do....

(Where 1200 is the centre position of your tone controls) -
Bass: 1100 Middle: 1100 Treble: 1300 (ie: 1 o'clock).

That's always my starting position and then I adjust as necessary.

Good luck...and remember it's all down to taste!