#16
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I don't know ANY company or read any add or seen a commercial where I've EVER heard a company say that. Did Martin state that with any of their Authentics or the "re-imagined" series ? Do they let you know that you may not like scalloped of forward shifted bracing when they make those changes or build guitars with them as an upgrade ? And now you think the guitar playing public should no longer trust Taylor because of this ? I'm sorry, but as logical as your first post was, your second post is almost types by a different person.
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2010 Guild F47R 2009 G & L Tribute "Legacy" 1975 Ovation Legend 1986 Ovation 1758 12 String 2007 Walden G2070 2008 Guild D55 Prototype 1998 Guild Starfire IV 2016 Guild Newark St. X-175 Sunburst 1996 Ovation 1768-7LTD " custom " |
#17
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There is (or should be) a difference in peddling diet pills and guitars. |
#18
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But the OP wanted Taylor to market their product like that, but doesn't seem to hold others to that same standard.
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2010 Guild F47R 2009 G & L Tribute "Legacy" 1975 Ovation Legend 1986 Ovation 1758 12 String 2007 Walden G2070 2008 Guild D55 Prototype 1998 Guild Starfire IV 2016 Guild Newark St. X-175 Sunburst 1996 Ovation 1768-7LTD " custom " |
#19
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If you mad that Taylor is marketing their new guitars by saying things you don't believe, and will no longer trust them, where have you been ? Overselling is a new thing ?
How many of you Martin players had this happen ? Or this gem:
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2010 Guild F47R 2009 G & L Tribute "Legacy" 1975 Ovation Legend 1986 Ovation 1758 12 String 2007 Walden G2070 2008 Guild D55 Prototype 1998 Guild Starfire IV 2016 Guild Newark St. X-175 Sunburst 1996 Ovation 1768-7LTD " custom " |
#20
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I played a 914ce V-class at Guitar Center today, which is now the second time I have played one, the first time being the Taylor day at Gryphon. I have to say I came away far less enthused this time. It felt unbalanced towards the treble strings, and they were very loud in the upper registers. I did not notice the sustain difference which I had noticed on the first go-round. I think this bracing pattern will be well-suited for GS and DN size guitars, and I prefer the sound of my 714ce to this $4999 914ce. But of course I was playing it at a Guitar Center...
Last edited by ii Cybershot ii; 03-17-2018 at 11:42 PM. |
#21
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Let’s say it is October 2017 and I am talking to Taylor about a BTO that I want to be the best they can build for me and I’m going to drop $5K or more on it. Do you think they would have told me to hang on another 2 months to wait on a change that will be evolutionary in guitar design? I think not, they would have taken my money right then and most likely built a guitar I would be very happy with.
And then the V-braced guitars are introduced and the marketing basically wants me to believe that all guitars with any other bracing are now inferior by design (at least that is how the marketing context has come across to me). That approach IMO has made Taylor look disengenuous to its customers like me (who bought over $7K in new Taylor guitars in 2017). I’m like the OP in that I retain a degree of cynicism in the claims and that seems to be bearing out as the actual results are very subjective in terms of whether Taylor achieved what they claimed. I’ll say it again. A better approach would have been for the context of their marketing presentation to present V bracing as a new feature that improves upon their current X bracing patterns that are already very established and good. The logic that all X-bracing has chaotic and flawed resonance/sustain characteristics is pushing it or was really not necessary.
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Doerr Trinity 12 Fret 00 (Lutz/Maple) Edwinson Zephyr 13 Fret 00 (Adi/Coco) Froggy Bottom H-12 (Adi/EIR) Kostal 12 Fret OMC (German Spruce/Koa) Rainsong APSE 12 Fret (Carbon Fiber) Taylor 812ce-N 12 fret (Sitka/EIR Nylon) Last edited by SprintBob; 03-18-2018 at 08:24 AM. |
#22
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I had the opportunity to play 3 high end Taylor V braced. They were very nice playing/sounding guitars. I still prefer the Martin sound.
I think if I was a Taylor guy, or when it comes to a time where I have to add a Taylor to my collections it would be the V braced model. Why? Although traditionally I like the Martin Sound/look, I like the idea of the bolt on neck and V Top for durability and lower maintenance costs. Another appointment I would like to see offered on higher end guitars is Nickel Steel frets with higher % mix of stainless steel. There is a very interesting PRS video out there where Paul describes the Nickel SS mix in their frets. I had to go back to my PRS and look at the wear after 2 years and it all made since. There are quite a few players like me out there who "choke" the neck with a songs dynamic and thus result in more fret ware than usual. Going back to this thread on the V Brace. The guitar sounded great but like any other nice sounding guitar. I would pay the premium because I respect/encourage positive innovation's that provides long term stability of the top and possibly provides better tone. |
#23
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#24
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I was at the Taylor day last week, I was not very impressed with the V-class 914ce. The one that sounded the best to me was the Koa one, K14ce. I was quite impressed on the volume and sustain up the neck.
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George 1930 National Style O 1931 National Triolian 1933 Gibson L-1 2007 Martin 000-18 SB Authentic 2013 Gibson 1935 Advanced Jumbo Limited Edition 2013 Gibson 1934 Original Jumbo Limited Edition 2021 Martin D-28 CAA 1937 2022 Martin 000-28 CAA Many Strat's, Tele's, ES 335's and a Gretsch Duo Jet |
#25
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Seems like most people like the V braced Koa model.
I'd like to try one of these new Taylors, just to see. I don't need a new guitar, so that is as far as it will go.
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2010 Guild F47R 2009 G & L Tribute "Legacy" 1975 Ovation Legend 1986 Ovation 1758 12 String 2007 Walden G2070 2008 Guild D55 Prototype 1998 Guild Starfire IV 2016 Guild Newark St. X-175 Sunburst 1996 Ovation 1768-7LTD " custom " |
#26
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Thanks for writing such a concise review of your experiences. This was very, very helpful. Also... +1 on Fullers Guitars. I was very impressed with this shop. I'm about a 40 minute drive away, myself, so this was my first time going to Fullers at the Taylor road show event this weekend.. but it's a huge step up from what I have in my area, which is basically a small GC (or 2) and a music store attached to a pawn shop. I'll definitely be going back there in the future and was impressed with the staff.
I can see how some people feel that Taylor was a bit, lets say, disingenuous towards their customers who have embraced their X-braced models. But I don't really know about saying that you can't trust them as a company, either. I think they could have approached it better, yes. I think they went out on a limb, and really, I think they are passionate and believe what they're saying. So actually, maybe disingenuous isn't the right word either. But I don't think that they are really Evil, either. They're trying to sell guitars, but I definitely think a slightly different approach wouldn't have rubbed so many people the wrong way. At the same time.. I think some people are over-reacting just a tad. I don't know. I can tell they believe in what they're doing, even though I do question if the 100% quantitative *science* behind it is totally sound.. (I went to the Road show this weekend and couldn't help myself from shaking my head a bit, as they asked the audience to clap in unison to a beat.. and comparing a vibrating top to that, compared to just regular applause... I still haven't seen something 100% definitive that tells me this is true, and seems quite a blanket statement) . And of course - we're talking about a huge, huge company here; of course marketing is going to come into it. Anyway. I think everything should be taken with a grain of salt. I didn't even play the V-braced models because the crowd was so thick, and sooo many people playing, it wouldn't have mattered. I went to the other side of the shop and played the used 2015 614ce that I've had my eye on for so long. But what I DID hear, of the models they demo'd... I was really, really impressed with the clarity and the overall sound. That's just to my ear, tone is subjective and all that- again, didn't play them, but what *I* heard? It sounded really, really, really good. And I do consider myself halfway of a skeptic, so I wasn't just drinking the kool-aid, either. I plan to go back when it's quieter, to give the 614 another play (wasn't blown away.. ) and also hopefully try the V-brace, even though I won't be a potential buyer until it filters way down there to the lower models. Like a 314 Ltd maybe? I could do that. Anyways, thanks again for the honest assessment. It helps to have someone breaking it down who's actually A/B'd them both, and who is respected. Just wanted to toss in my $.02 and call it a night. regards SC
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2003 Washburn WD44S | Sitka/Hawaiian koa 2018 Gibson J-45 Vintage | Torrefied Adi/Mahogany 2015 Gibson Wildwood AJ New Vintage | Adi/EIR Fishman | Loudbox Mini | Primetone 1.0mm "what is the universe? the universe is a symphony of vibrating strings.." -michio kaku |
#27
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I think the issue is that Taylor didin't just come out and say, " This new bracing will improve the sound of our guitars in fundemental ways, so we plan on phasing it in on all our lines. " and left it like that. I suspect the reason was that it would have generated a ton of " How will it improve this ? " , so they told their exact reasons why they felt it was good enough to not just offer it as an option on "special high end models " like some companies might have. The problem SOME people have is they think the explanation makes it sound like traditional X braced guitars are "flawed" by comparison. So they take it personally. "My guitar sounds FINE ! " so Taylor must lying about this whole bracing thing. In my view, if you think Taylor is claiming that everyone's old school design guitar is flawed, you have read WAY more into this than is there. Taylor had reasons to explore this type of bracing. They experimented for years, I am quite sure, and probably did a lot of A/B comparisons. This is going to require some notable, and costly, changes to the building process. They are betting the farm on it, since it's going to be in ALL their guitars. They wouldn't do this based on marketing ploy to gain attention. They are not lying , evil , people. Their just making a change to their guitars.
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2010 Guild F47R 2009 G & L Tribute "Legacy" 1975 Ovation Legend 1986 Ovation 1758 12 String 2007 Walden G2070 2008 Guild D55 Prototype 1998 Guild Starfire IV 2016 Guild Newark St. X-175 Sunburst 1996 Ovation 1768-7LTD " custom " |
#28
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Come Monday, we can sort out these differences in perspective. They're quite minor, but significant. |
#29
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... or did Bob sign up Danny Zager as his new Marketing & Advertising Campaign Manager?
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Brucebubs 1972 - Takamine D-70 2014 - Alvarez ABT60 Baritone 2015 - Kittis RBJ-195 Jumbo 2012 - Dan Dubowski#61 2018 - Rickenbacker 4003 Fireglo 2020 - Gibson Custom Shop Historic 1957 SJ-200 2021 - Epiphone 'IBG' Hummingbird |
#30
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If you watch the video above and think otherwise, I would be interested to hear your interpretation. But Taylor's stance on this is very, very clear. Not just by the this reps words, but also from the mouth of Bob Taylor, Andy Powers and the companies admission that their plain is to remove X-bracing from the entire lineup and transition to V-Class bracing. Even if you interpret their comments to be specific only to Taylor's past X-braced guitars (leaving Martin, Gibson, etc.. out of it), they are still clearly saying if you own a X-braced Taylor it's upcoming V-braced counterpart will be superior. It is their unwillingness to approach this topic on subjective terms that has everyone angry. BTW Taylor is including all X-braced guitars in their judgement not just their own products. That includes even those old pre-war Martins. I don't have the videos handy, but their comments at NAMM made this clear to me. I see no room for interpretation on how Taylor Guitars feels regarding the X-bracing vs V-Class bracing debate. They see their new design as so superior they intend to get rid of X-bracing entirely. Quote:
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Wayne J-45 song of the day archive https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis..._Zmxz51NAwG1UJ My music https://soundcloud.com/waynedeats76 https://www.facebook.com/waynedeatsmusic My guitars Gibson, Martin, Blueridge, Alvarez, Takamine Last edited by Rmz76; 03-18-2018 at 11:09 PM. |