Subwoofer recommendations?

[Petty1818]

I have been considering adding a sub or two to my current PA set up, which consists of two QSC K12 speakers. I have done the research and written on different forums and what I tend to find is that the largest subs are often always recommended. The problem is, this is usually coming from DJ's who just want the most bass they can get or bands that mic everything and play large clubs. I thought I would see if anyone here uses a sub and what recommendations you can give?

The QSC KW181 seems like a good fit, but it's heavy enough and fairly large. I have spoken to a number of stores that specialize in PA systems and most say that even a single one would work. I just don't know if that's overkill. My main band consists of two acoustic guitars, bass, percussion and a fiddle. We also use mandolin and octave mandolin and at times mic an amp. There are always four instruments being played. We don't normally run the bass through the PA but we want to for the best sound.

I keep hearing from people that even a single 15" sub, will not be enough to fill out the sound of two K12's but I feel like this is again coming from DJ's. Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[YamahaGuy]

FWIW I have a pair of Yamaha MSR400 powered 12s on top of a single Harbinger Vari. 18 and it sounds really good. I have had a 5 string bassist play direct into a Mackie mixer and the thing slammed. Fairly portable and a good price too. Stereo input, crossed over coming out.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by YamahaGuy

FWIW I have a pair of Yamaha MSR400 powered 12s on top of a single Harbinger Vari. 18 and it sounds really good. I have had a 5 string bassist play direct into a Mackie mixer and the thing slammed. Fairly portable and a good price too. Stereo input, crossed over coming out.

Thanks! I am also considering the newer EV EKX-15SP. I know it's only a 15" sub but from what I have been reading, this thing has a lot of low end. I think an 18" would be a safe bet as I could use that anywhere, I would just like something a bit more portable. I think the EV is under 60lbs, which is insanely light for a sub.

[YamahaGuy]

I mainly bought mine for times when the whole band will be mic'd and run through my PA. I have read a lot of positive reviews of Yamaha subs (I am a huge Yamaha fan if you can't tell) but their subs were out of my price range at this time.

I have used a single 12 with decent results, but to handle a bass I would go for a 15".

[Petty1818]

Makes sense! I don't even really feel like our band needs a sub, I just want to start running the bass through and have heard that once you get a sub, you will miss not having it. I did try a sub once with the acoustic group and even the slightest thump on the guitar seemed to cause an insane amount of feedback. I think I would have to learn how to integrate it.

The frustration part is that it's very difficult to find a solid answer on how many speakers and subs should be used for certain events. It always seems like people recommend crazy amounts. For example, once you mention outdoors shows, everyone recommends 2-4 subs and 2-4 speakers. I can understand if I was putting on a professional show but for bands that just want a nice sound, that seems overkill. I did an outdoor show a few weeks ago where we were facing a beach (still about 100ft away from the beach itself) and had to compete with wind. I used two K12's and the sound was great. I could even see people on the beach dancing. I feel like a single 18" would be fine even though everyone recommends more.

[Lapo]

GC Soundworks subs hands down. A new company using fundamentally new speaker architecture that yields lots of performance benifits. Their websit is ynder construction now, but theyll answer your questions. Not powered at tge moment but were talking Danley, BassBoss level subwoofers for way less. Theyll embarass a QSC sub. Good luck.

[DHart]

Sorry, just couldn't resist! Having lots of laughs tonight.

[krisls]

Ah.. subs... difficult.

I do mostly acoustic guitar vocal gigs, so subs are really an outside indulgence, a maybe, if I could or thought I needed. Occasionally if I add a bass or keys one would come in handy, but mostly... Oh I run K10's.
So a while back I did a gig on Australia day, an Irish Pub with me and a mate on guitars. The PA was supplied, 4 K10's and a K Sub up front. Oh yes.. was that a lovely thing and a great gig. Almost made me believe I needed subs n such.

If I did enough gigs that needed that bottom end I would go that way or maybe the new Cardioid one. For me the KW is OTT. But that depends on where you are and how much bottom end you want. I got into an almost argument here about the 'usefulness' of the K Sub. It fits the speakers I use and gives enough grunt for me. But I aint a DJ doof doof type, so... horses for courses.

I know guys in a trio band that use the Yam DBR 12's as mains. They don't do amps and the bass and kick are run through a Behringer Euro 15 sub. Works fine for them, for a couple of years no drama. I admit to being slightly 'allergic' to Behringer stuff.. but..

I also would look at the smallish Yam or EV subs 12 or 15 to see how they would cope if I was looking. But I still think for pure simplicity and plug n play I'd go the K Sub or maybe the new cardioid.. anything else would be more than I could see needing.

As ever it depends what you need for what you're doing, but it sounds like you're being pushed into the doof doof world .. just because... remember that 'Loudness' button.. I never used it.

Kris

[zhunter]

First we are not a loud band but we fill a room. We use K12s primarily or K10s on occasion. We put the bass in the PA. No onstage amps, just QSCs set up as monitor. Instead of more bass, I take a different approach. I put the Ks LF eq in the "Ext Sub" position which activates a 100 hz high pass filter. We still get plenty of bass and the high pass tightens up the bass by eliminating the murky sub 100 HZ bass that mostly gets in the way.

I don't care for the "Deep" setting. Maybe it works in some setups but I don't think these speakers are up to the task. No love for the K sub sound. The form factor is tempting but the effect is too subtle to make much difference. The KW starts to be a real sub but as pointed out, it is a major load.

While I am not convinced a sub adds much value for the club music most folks play, I do keep an eye out in case someone really ups the game with a box that isn't so big and heavy that adds harmonic clarity and not just thump.

hunter

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by krisls

Ah.. subs... difficult.

I do mostly acoustic guitar vocal gigs, so subs are really an outside indulgence, a maybe, if I could or thought I needed. Occasionally if I add a bass or keys one would come in handy, but mostly... Oh I run K10's.
So a while back I did a gig on Australia day, an Irish Pub with me and a mate on guitars. The PA was supplied, 4 K10's and a K Sub up front. Oh yes.. was that a lovely thing and a great gig. Almost made me believe I needed subs n such.

If I did enough gigs that needed that bottom end I would go that way or maybe the new Cardioid one. For me the KW is OTT. But that depends on where you are and how much bottom end you want. I got into an almost argument here about the 'usefulness' of the K Sub. It fits the speakers I use and gives enough grunt for me. But I aint a DJ doof doof type, so... horses for courses.

I know guys in a trio band that use the Yam DBR 12's as mains. They don't do amps and the bass and kick are run through a Behringer Euro 15 sub. Works fine for them, for a couple of years no drama. I admit to being slightly 'allergic' to Behringer stuff.. but..

I also would look at the smallish Yam or EV subs 12 or 15 to see how they would cope if I was looking. But I still think for pure simplicity and plug n play I'd go the K Sub or maybe the new cardioid.. anything else would be more than I could see needing.

As ever it depends what you need for what you're doing, but it sounds like you're being pushed into the doof doof world .. just because... remember that 'Loudness' button.. I never used it.

Kris

Thanks! That was a refreshing read. As mentioned, I feel like when discussing subs, it's always dj's arguing for massive speakers. I have never quite understood the whole thing. I do shows with two K12's and the sound is nice and full and loud. If I asked for advice on playing outside, I would get recommendations for 4-6 K12's at least. I just did one with two and the sound was still excellent

The Ksub gets a bad reputation but there are many videos out there where people defend them. I guess a lot of people want that deep, dance music bass and that's not what the ksub was meant for. It was meant to fill out the sound. Part of me thinks that even one of those would work. I just worry a bit that at larger venues, if I use one ksub and switch my speakers to ext sub mode, it might sound a bit thin that's what always confuses me. If I added a sub and left the speakers in normal position and just used the sub for a bit more bass, would that be bad?

The EV EKX15sp looks great and it's light. However most pa shops tell me that wouldn't be enough

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by zhunter

First we are not a loud band but we fill a room. We use K12s primarily or K10s on occasion. We put the bass in the PA. No onstage amps, just QSCs set up as monitor. Instead of more bass, I take a different approach. I put the Ks LF eq in the "Ext Sub" position which activates a 100 hz high pass filter. We still get plenty of bass and the high pass tightens up the bass by eliminating the murky sub 100 HZ bass that mostly gets in the way.

I don't care for the "Deep" setting. Maybe it works in some setups but I don't think these speakers are up to the task. No love for the K sub sound. The form factor is tempting but the effect is too subtle to make much difference. The KW starts to be a real sub but as pointed out, it is a major load.

While I am not convinced a sub adds much value for the club music most folks play, I do keep an eye out in case someone really ups the game with a box that isn't so big and heavy that adds harmonic clarity and not just thump.

hunter

Interesting. I would think that in ext sub mode, the speakers would lose a bit of fullness. Qsc recommend this setting when the speakers are used as monitors but I always leave them on normal because they are too thin. I will have to try this.

[zhunter]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Interesting. I would think that in ext sub mode, the speakers would lose a bit of fullness. Qsc recommend this setting when the speakers are used as monitors but I always leave them on normal because they are too thin. I will have to try this.

Get rid of the mud and you can actually turn the bass up. Plenty full and clarity too. We used house systems in two different rooms that had K-Subs. They never did much for me. I could turn em off and not feel I was losing anything. It is a lot of baggage just to fill out sound and, even that, to my ear was debatable. No added bass clarity in a K-Sub...to my ear.

hunter

[cattzap]

I use 2 K10's and a K15 I don't have too far to tote them each Sunday so it's not bad for me. The K15 is a beast Strong solid low end. I just use one. It's plenty. You might mess with the switches on the back of the K12's. There is one for external sub and I think it switches to a bass boost type thing if I remember right. It's not close by me where I can look right now. It may be all you need to do, flip a switch. I'd certainly do that before I bought anything.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by cattzap

I use 2 K10's and a K15 I don't have too far to tote them each Sunday so it's not bad for me. The K15 is a beast Strong solid low end. I just use one. It's plenty. You might mess with the switches on the back of the K12's. There is one for external sub and I think it switches to a bass boost type thing if I remember right. It's not close by me where I can look right now. It may be all you need to do, flip a switch. I'd certainly do that before I bought anything.

K15? Never heard of that model.

[cattzap]

Looks like its a KW181 They weren't close by so I could see the exact model numbers I was thinking it was a 15"er

https://www.qsc.com/live-sound/produ...woofers/kw181/