Yamaha Zero Impact Pickup

[Petty1818]

Just wondering if anyone has had a chance to try the Zero Impact system that Yamaha is installing into their L series guitars? Apparently it's a passive UST that consists of individual piezoelectric elements for each string, which helps eliminate quack. I am not sure if the claim is correct that it has no impact on the unplugged tone but I have heard good things about it. I know it probably cannot be ordered separately but I am still interested in any experiences!

[guitaniac]

From the small drawing I've seen, it just looks like a typical ceramic UST. The six crystals thing certainly isn't anything new. Perhaps Yamaha has found a new piezo material which doesn't quack much under saddle pressure. The one review which I've read said its a pretty solid pickup with good tone and minimal quack.

I thought Yamaha's SRT system was something akin to Aura in the way it worked, and that it required a complex onboard preamp. Going to a factory-installed passive undersaddle system is a pretty bold move for Yamaha. I wonder if they're planning to come out with an outboard preamp which applies some SRT processing to the signal.

I can recall that Yamaha was employing an active soundboard pickup system a few years back. (The SBT itself was multiple layered, and the system employed multiple SBTs.) Its pretty interesting that they've stepped back to a passive UST. They must know that many (if not most) of the passive pickup users favor SBTs and mag pickups.

[Fretto]

The UST's quacking sounds horrible to me; I am also intrigued by a new Yamaha's product, let's see:
http://europe.yamaha.com/en/products...eries/feature/

The SRT Zero Impact Pickup system is a newly developed passive type pickup system designed to minimize the pickup's impact on the tone and traditional appearance of the instrument. The system utilizes individual piezoelectric elements for each string to faithfully reproduce the dynamic sound of the L-Series and give the instrument outstanding presence when playing in a band.

* The system does not incorporate controls or preamplifier in the guitar body. Connect the pickup system to an external preamp via the output jack in the endpin.

here is the image, from the shape/sise perspective it looks pretty much like a common UST:



but indeed, 6 white spots on it might represent those 6 separate piezo crystals. The thing that does not really make sense to me is that the saddle lays on them all as a single unit hence the vibration from e.g. the e-string would go to the other crystals as much as on a common UST... go figure. It makes total sense if it were a 6-piece saddle made as a one-unit (dunno how it is possible), even though the crystals connected in parallel like K&Ks.

[guitaniac]

Fretto,

FWIW, I once had a guitar where the saddle had a yoke with six individual teeth in it. That's been tried, as well as a one-piece saddle with five slots which partially separate six sections of the saddle. I believe Fishman made that last mentioned saddle, but eventually they discontinued it.

There are a variety of USTs and in-saddle pickups which use six individual crystals, or even six individual pieces of piezo film (Shadow Hex), so there's nothing new about that. If the Zero Impact pickup really is less quacky than a typical UST, its due to some other feature - possibly the size or nature of the piezo material, or the way it interacts with the saddle. I don't doubt that there's something special about this pickup. I can't see Yamaha just stepping back to a typical passive ceramic piezo undersaddle pickup - not after their forays into digital processing (with UST signals) and their systems which employed multiple SBTs.

[bdjansen]

I played one yesterday in an LL16M. It sounded good for a piezo. But I was playing it through a Fishman amp that is probably designed to make UST pickups sound good. I'm thinking about buying the guitar because I want a good UST to use with a Fishman aura DI and because the guitar sounded really great as well. The ARE top is really smooth and warm sounding. And the neck was fantastic. I'm just unsure if I want the dread or if I want to drive an hour to try the smaller body shape.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by bdjansen

I played one yesterday in an LL16M. It sounded good for a piezo. But I was playing it through a Fishman amp that is probably designed to make UST pickups sound good. I'm thinking about buying the guitar because I want a good UST to use with a Fishman aura DI and because the guitar sounded really great as well. The ARE top is really smooth and warm sounding. And the neck was fantastic. I'm just unsure if I want the dread or if I want to drive an hour to try the smaller body shape.

Acoustic amps like the ones made by Fishman are definitely designed to enhance acoustic pickups. However, they won't take the piezo sound out of a UST and make it magically sound great. The Zero Impact does look like something that has been tried before. I just like that it's passive and at least attempts to get rid of the quacky tone of normal UST's. The downside is that you need to buy a Yamaha guitar to get the pickup and for some reason there are very few demoes of it online.

On a side note, just be aware that the Aura is picky about which UST is used. It really sounds at its best when paired with the Fishman Matrix. You might have trouble with the Zero Impact, especially since the design is a little different than most UST style pickups.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

On a side note, just be aware that the Aura is picky about which UST is used. It really sounds at its best when paired with the Fishman Matrix. You might have trouble with the Zero Impact, especially since the design is a little different than most UST style pickups.

So very true. Presuming one does find a UST or in-saddle pickup (like the Barbera) which doesn't quack, one would probably need to get custom sound images made for the best possible Aura performance. Even with the optimum Aura system, Aura won't work as well for tapping as a system which includes a mic or an SBT.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Acoustic amps like the ones made by Fishman are definitely designed to enhance acoustic pickups. However, they won't take the piezo sound out of a UST and make it magically sound great. The Zero Impact does look like something that has been tried before. I just like that it's passive and at least attempts to get rid of the quacky tone of normal UST's. The downside is that you need to buy a Yamaha guitar to get the pickup and for some reason there are very few demoes of it online.

On a side note, just be aware that the Aura is picky about which UST is used. It really sounds at its best when paired with the Fishman Matrix. You might have trouble with the Zero Impact, especially since the design is a little different than most UST style pickups.

You're correct, it's basically a skeleton version of Ovation's 45-year-old design pickup system.

Regards,

SpruceTop

[Jmackay66]

Been playing a yamaha LS6 thru a fishman pro platinum eq for about six months now. While the passive p up system has been around for awhile, I like the convenience of no battery in the guitar. I run tc tuner, mxr mini chorus, shim-verb, bbe 282 sonic maximizer then pre amp out. Very simple setup, adjust eq and minor tweaks on the others and sounds very nice! I think yamaha hit a homer with this package as long as you use a decent pre and eq. Isn't hard to get great tone.imho.

[bdjansen]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Acoustic amps like the ones made by Fishman are definitely designed to enhance acoustic pickups. However, they won't take the piezo sound out of a UST and make it magically sound great. The Zero Impact does look like something that has been tried before. I just like that it's passive and at least attempts to get rid of the quacky tone of normal UST's. The downside is that you need to buy a Yamaha guitar to get the pickup and for some reason there are very few demoes of it online.

On a side note, just be aware that the Aura is picky about which UST is used. It really sounds at its best when paired with the Fishman Matrix. You might have trouble with the Zero Impact, especially since the design is a little different than most UST style pickups.

Yeah I tried it and it wasn't a very good match. I tried a few different guitars with piezo pickups installed and the Yamaha was my least favorite with the Aura. But in the end I didn't really like any of the sounds I was getting from the Aura and I sent it back.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by bdjansen

Yeah I tried it and it wasn't a very good match. I tried a few different guitars with piezo pickups installed and the Yamaha was my least favorite with the Aura. But in the end I didn't really like any of the sounds I was getting from the Aura and I sent it back.

The fact that the Yamaha pickup works poorly with the Aura sound images tried might mean that its more top-responsive than the Fishman UST. (The stock Aura sound images are all derived from Fishman UST-equipped guitars.) Another possibility is that the Yamaha guitar is very different from the guitars which were used in deriving the sound images which were tried.

In my own case, the PUTW I/O UST worked the most poorly with the Aura Spectrum DI. Its relevant to note that the I/O UST is the most top-responsive (by far) UST that I've used.

On the other hand, I had a little (OO size) Fishman UST-equipped Cort which worked extremely well with some of the Spectrum DI's OM sound images. I'd still have that guitar (and the Spectrum DI) if its fretboard had been a little wider (and more to my personal taste).


If its true that the passive Yamaha UST is the same transducer as is being used in Yamaha's digital SRT system, then its very likely that Yamaha will release an outboard preamp/processor soon. I recall that the old Yamaha AG stomp preamp/processor (introduced in 2001) was my own introduction to digitally processed pickup signals.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

If its true that the passive Yamaha UST is the same transducer as is being used in Yamaha's digital SRT system, then its very likely that Yamaha will release an outboard preamp/processor soon. I recall that the old Yamaha AG stomp preamp/processor (introduced in 2001) was my own introduction to digitally processed pickup signals.

While perusing vids for the L-series Yamahas and the zero impact pickup, I came across Armando using one of the little Yamaha amps (to supplement his acoustic sound, I presume) while demoing the guitar. Further study of Yamaha's THRA5 acoustic guitar practice amp revealed that the phone jack can be used as a line out and that it can be be used as a preamp.

I learned all this before a player showed up at one of my open mics last night and used it as a preamp. Talk about a strange coincidence!

In any event, the THRA5 has mic simulations, compression and some basic effects. It could probably be used as an effective preamp for the zero impact pickup.

Here's the vid with Armando using the THRA5 (or one of the other THR series amps) to help him demo the L-series guitar.
http://youtu.be/RUVLH0ycarU

[lmacmil]

Anyone know if this pickup can be removed like a conventional UST if one so desired?