Best pre amp for the k&k pure mini?

[icy_wind500]

Hi guys, I am thinking of getting the pure mini pickups for my hog gs mini.
I dont usually play live, but I just want to do something with my loop station and play rhythm and lead by myself so I need a pickup.
I have a gs mini hog and a D15M both without pickups but I think putting the pickup on the gs mini would make it more convenient if I want to take it out to play one day.
So my problem comes down to which pre-amp to get?
Should I get the K&K xrl ? or just the cheaper K&K one without the phase switch? Is it worth getting the xrl at almost twice the price?
Thanks guys for your input !

[Ed422]

If you plan to go direct into a mixer, go xlr. If you will be going through pedal(s) before any mixer, get the Pure Preamp (non-XLR).

Ed

[icy_wind500]

Originally Posted by Ed422

If you plan to go direct into a mixer, go xlr. If you will be going through pedal(s) before any mixer, get the Pure Preamp (non-XLR).

Ed

Thanks for your reply
I think I will have it go into a boss RC-3 looper and than into roland AC-60.
Does that mean the phase switch is only for mixers?

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by icy_wind500

Thanks for your reply
I think I will have it go into a boss RC-3 looper and than into roland AC-60.
Does that mean the phase switch is only for mixers?

Your Roland AC-60 already has a really good pre-amp. Why would you want to run a pre-amp into another good pre-amp?

Phase switches serve several purposes in the grand scheme of things. Most notably in "live" acoustic scenarios to help cut down on feedback.

[icy_wind500]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

Your Roland AC-60 already has a really good pre-amp. Why would you want to run a pre-amp into another good pre-amp?

Phase switches serve several purposes in the grand scheme of things. Most notably in "live" acoustic scenarios to help cut down on feedback.

OH ! I was told by the owner of my local guitar shop that dialing the eq on the AC60 is not going to get the full sound of the pure mini without the pre-amp. And he advised me to get a k&k pre amp for it because otherwise it will never sound good.

[Ed422]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

Your Roland AC-60 already has a really good pre-amp. Why would you want to run a pre-amp into another good pre-amp?

Phase switches serve several purposes in the grand scheme of things. Most notably in "live" acoustic scenarios to help cut down on feedback.

If plugging direct into the amp, this may or may not be true. I haven't tried (or looked at the specs for) the Roland. This works with my Ultrasound and when I plug direct into it, I don't use the preamp. If there is a pedal before the amp, it is almost always better to have the preamp before the pedal.

In my experience... YMMV.

Ed

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by icy_wind500

OH ! The owner of my local guitar shop said the dialing the eq on the AC60 is not going to get the full benefit of the pure mini without the pickup. And he advised me to get a k&k pre amp for it because otherwise is like plugging an acoustic in an electric guitar amp. It will never sound good.

Not entirely sure what your saying here? Both pre-amps (that is to say the K&K and the Roland) have the same eq. I'm not sure if the eq's are set at the same points but neither eq section could possibly be deemed "better" than the other. From there and at least as a broad brush-stroke a pre-amp is a pre-amp. There's certainly nothing lacking in the Roland that the K&K would provide.

The fact is if we start from the premise that without some outboard help (in this case the K&K) "the Roland will never sound good". Then the Roland will never sound good. Nothing Roland has ever release to the market has ever been inferior unless you go out and buy something else. The pre-amp in the Roland is, by and large, of the same quality as the K&K.

[icy_wind500]

ok reading my post again, I realised I've read an awful amount of typos.... I guess that means its time to bed its midnight down here in Oz

I guess I will just try to install the k&k first and then see how it sounds through the roland before I decide to buy anything else thanks guys for the help !

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by Ed422

when I plug direct into it, I don't use the preamp.

I'm looking at the Ultrasound amps Ed and beside the FX return I see no line-in input that skips a pre-amp. Where are you plugging in that skips a pre-amp section??

The same of course can be said for the Roland. There are input structures (such as FX returns) that skip a pre-amp stage but not the normal inputs.

[Ed422]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

I'm looking at the Ultrasound amps Ed and beside the FX return I see no line-in input that skips a pre-amp. Where are you plugging in that skips a pre-amp section??

The same of course can be said for the Roland. There are input structures (such as FX returns) that skip a pre-amp stage but not the normal inputs.

Bad wording on my part... when going guitar into amp, I don't use the K&K preamp. The preamp in the Ultrasound is a great preamp and is well matched to the K&K Pure Western pickups.

The K&K preamp is designed to be (impedance and level) matched to the K&K pickups (and even have internal 1st stage gain adjustment to tweak for a specific pickup). The preamps in most amps are designed to work with a variety of pickups. Whether they are optimal for a specific pickup is hit or miss.

Ed

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by Ed422

Bad wording on my part... when going guitar into amp, I don't use the K&K preamp. The preamp in the Ultrasound is a great preamp and is well matched to the K&K Pure Western pickups.

The K&K preamp is designed to be (impedance and level) matched to the K&K pickups (and even have internal 1st stage gain adjustment to tweak for a specific pickup). The preamps in most amps are designed to work with a variety of pickups. Whether they are optimal for a specific pickup is hit or miss.

Ed

.......................

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by icy_wind500

...Should I get the K&K xrl ? or just the cheaper K&K one without the phase switch? Is it worth getting the xrl at almost twice the price?
Thanks guys for your input !

Hi I_W...
I usually recommend to friends and students that they start without a preamp, to see if they feel they need it, and if so then borrow some of mine and compare.

Our experience is the K&K Pure Western Mini benefits from an external preamp with all but the most expensive (think AER $1700) amps. We use UltraSound preamps, Fishman, Baggs (both ParaDI and Venue), K&K, Raven, DTAR and they all improve the sound, with the DTAR and Raven being the best of the lot, but in reality they are designed for dual source rigs.

We get great (and improved) sound from any of them.

My K&K Trinity belt pack pre works fine, but is just the backup to my other preamp rigs and choices. It is in no way better than the other choices, and it is lacking in features (no ground life, or phase, or XLR out)

Some people are happily plugging directly in without preamps, where others like to tweak the sound. All that's required to plug in directly is a simple direct box (passive) for $20-30.

[icy_wind500]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi I_W...
I usually recommend to friends and students that they start without a preamp, to see if they feel they need it, and if so then borrow some of mine and compare.

Our experience is the K&K Pure Western Mini benefits from an external preamp with all but the most expensive (think AER $1700) amps. We use UltraSound preamps, Fishman, Baggs (both ParaDI and Venue), K&K, Raven, DTAR and they all improve the sound, with the DTAR and Raven being the best of the lot, but in reality they are designed for dual source rigs.

We get great (and improved) sound from any of them.

My K&K Trinity belt pack pre works fine, but is just the backup to my other preamp rigs and choices. It is in no way better than the other choices, and it is lacking in features (no ground life, or phase, or XLR out)

Some people are happily plugging directly in without preamps, where others like to tweak the sound. All that's required to plug in directly is a simple direct box (passive) for $20-30.

I'm not quite understanding this, if the pre-amp in the amp does a similar function as an external pre-amp which is eq, then why would using an external one always sound better?
Is the primary function of a pre-amp just to change eq? Or am I missing something ?

[Ed422]

Originally Posted by icy_wind500

I'm not quite understanding this, if the pre-amp in the amp does a similar function as an external pre-amp which is eq, then why would using an external one always sound better?
Is the primary function of a pre-amp just to change eq? Or am I missing something ?

Ok, this depends on how in depth we want to get. (note: the intent here is not condescension) You start off with a tiny signal that you are trying to make bigger. If you try to do too much at once, you lose sensitivity and bandwidth. If you do too little at once, it takes too many stages to get where you want (or you just don't get there). The trick is to match the signal coming in with the signal the circuit is looking for. A good amp has a compromise preamp built in. It is made to accept a range pickups. The signal put out by a Seymour Duncan Woody is far different than that of a Martin Thinline or a K&K or the output of a Zoom acoustic multi-effect. The preamp in the amp is going to be better with some than with others. If you are spectacularly lucky, the preamp in the amplifier will be closely matched to the pickup you have. External preamps are designed to match the pickup signal to the amplifier input circuitry. It is more than just EQ.

Again, not meant to be condescending... hopefully it doesn't come across that way.

Ed

[icy_wind500]

Originally Posted by Ed422

Ok, this depends on how in depth we want to get. (note: the intent here is not condescension) You start off with a tiny signal that you are trying to make bigger. If you try to do too much at once, you lose sensitivity and bandwidth. If you do too little at once, it takes too many stages to get where you want (or you just don't get there). The trick is to match the signal coming in with the signal the circuit is looking for. A good amp has a compromise preamp built in. It is made to accept a range pickups. The signal put out by a Seymour Duncan Woody is far different than that of a Martin Thinline or a K&K or the output of a Zoom acoustic multi-effect. The preamp in the amp is going to be better with some than with others. If you are spectacularly lucky, the preamp in the amplifier will be closely matched to the pickup you have. External preamps are designed to match the pickup signal to the amplifier input circuitry. It is more than just EQ.

Again, not meant to be condescending... hopefully it doesn't come across that way.

Ed

ok, I think Im starting to understand now, but in that case since I cant skip the pre-amp section on the AC60 wouldnt that mean even if I have a k&k pre-amp that matches my pickup, the signal would still see a difference when it goes into the AC60?