Help with K&K mini pickup

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Quickstep192

One of the popular DI/preamps that I See is the Fire-Eye Red-Eye. But I notice it has no adjustments. Sorry for such a rudimentary question, but how does it know what to do?

Hi Qs

The Fishman Platinum Stage is a winner in all departments as a preamp for K&K preamps. Three way tone, adjustable frequency on the mids, switchable/selectable hi pass (bass) filter, ground lift built in, can be run on phantom power, simultaneous XLR and ¼" output, input gain and output volume controls, aluminum frame, small, not delicate, and roadworthy.

And it's $150. It's replaced the ParaDI in my gig bag.

You may not have liked the sound through your friend's PA, so we cannot really comment on it since we don't know what that PA consists of for components.

The tone of a guitar through a PA is highly affected by the actual PA/board/speakers and the person manning them.

I can tell you I've run a lot of K&K equipped guitars through a lot of different systems, and they have been easy to setup to sound really great.

[rokdog49]

I use the Fishman Platinum Pro which is like the Fishman Stage with more features.
I have the JJB's not the K and K but they are for all intents and purposes, the same thing.
You would see a nice improvement with a good pre-amp. I have heard good things about the Red-Eye but my Platinum Pro DI/EQ Pre-amp offers a lot more EQ including fine tuning notch filters for mid, trebles and bass. It has a tuner which when engaged mutes the guitar's input signal (very handy), has a boost function and is $100 more but in general you get a lot more more bang for the buck.
My grandson built this handy stand for me, but it can be used on the floor.
Anyway, I like mine.

[Quickstep192]

“If you are going to drop a bunch of dough on a pre-amp, it will behoove you to do your due diligence... you will want to get something that works with the PA or amp that you will be using. Not many pre-amps are going to work well with EVERY different mixing board or amplifier.

In short, it's a fairly deep "rabbit hole" that you are about to go into! Take the time to learn about amplifying your guitar and discovering what will work best for your application. Failing to do this will probably cost you a bunch of money that is misspent.“

This seems like sage advice. Unfortunately, I won’t have access to the PA at the venue until the rehearsal the day before the gig. That said, the venue has hosted many many performers, so hopefully they can deal with a variety of pre-amps.

Maybe...

[gfirob]

+1 for the Tonedexter. Many Tonedexter owners have gone through a whole expensive list of preamps before they landed on what really is the best option. Before I spent $200 or $300 (or more) on a preamp that is a compromise (and they are all compromises), I would listen carefully to the demos (like the one posted above) and consider what it would do for you. What you hear in Doug Young's demo is exactly what you get. If you want the genuine sound of your guitar, as if it were coming through a microphone, Tonedexter is the only option. Tonedexter is completely unique, no other product takes this route. Just sayin'...

[Quickstep192]

I think I may have it narrowed down to the Fishman Platinum and the K&K Pure XLR. i called the folks at my friendly neighborhood guitar shop who told me to do a K&K pre-amp with a K&K pickup. I hope they're not too brand biased when I go in to kick the tires.

I'm also looking at the Orchid pre-amp. One of my favorite musicians, Martyn Joseph uses the Orchid and say he picked it because it works well with a wide variety of PA systems as he travels a lot and has to use whatever the venue has. And by the way, he always sounds great.

As a techie guy, I love the idea of the Tonedexter, but it's just a shade too pricey for what will probably be a one-trick-pony for me.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Quickstep192

As a techie guy, I love the idea of the Tonedexter, but it's just a shade too pricey for what will probably be a one-trick-pony for me.

The budget's one thing, but I wouldn't say ToneDexter is a one trick pony. It's a full-featured preamp/DI with volume, tone controls, DI out, tuner, mute and boost switches, notch filter, etc. You don't even have to use the wavemap feature, (unless you'd like the guitar to sound better :-) ) it will basically do all the same things as something like the K&K preamp, but with the added feature of the wavemap functionality, if you want to use it. I'd say the only thing where some other preamps might have something over ToneDexter as a pure preamp is that TD only has bass and treble controls, and you might find more EQ on some others. This makes sense for TD, tho, since the wavemap is solving the problem people are usually trying (and failing) to address with lots of EQ, so it just doesn't need any more.

You can use almost any preamp with the K&K. I've tried quite a few and have yet to come across one that doesn't work fine, in spite of claims that you need something special for this pickup, so anything reasonable that you get should be ok, and should sound quite similar, with the exception of ToneDexter, which has it's own special added-value that you can't get with just EQ or whatever.

(Not trying to sell you a ToneDexter, I have no skin in the game, and what works for different people varies widely. Just want to clear up the "one trick pony" perception)

[Quickstep192]

Sorry,

When I said one-trick pony, I meant that this will probably be the only time I play out, so it will be the only time the pre-amp gets used, other than practices. There’s no future use planned. So, I want to sound good for this gig, but don’t want to spend too too much since there probably won’t be another.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Quickstep192

Sorry,

When I said one-trick pony, I meant that this will probably be the only time I play out, so it will be the only time the pre-amp gets used, other than practices. There’s no future use planned. So, I want to sound good for this gig, but don’t want to spend too too much since there probably won’t be another.

Ah, got it, so you really mean that amplification in general is a one-time thing. That's a somewhat unusual situation, but it makes sense not to spend money in that case. Might be a good case for just borrowing something.

[BluesKing777]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

The budget's one thing, but I wouldn't say ToneDexter is a one trick pony. It's a full-featured preamp/DI with volume, tone controls, DI out, tuner, mute and boost switches, notch filter, etc. You don't even have to use the wavemap feature, (unless you'd like the guitar to sound better :-) ) it will basically do all the same things as something like the K&K preamp, but with the added feature of the wavemap functionality, if you want to use it. I'd say the only thing where some other preamps might have something over ToneDexter as a pure preamp is that TD only has bass and treble controls, and you might find more EQ on some others. This makes sense for TD, tho, since the wavemap is solving the problem people are usually trying (and failing) to address with lots of EQ, so it just doesn't need any more.

You can use almost any preamp with the K&K. I've tried quite a few and have yet to come across one that doesn't work fine, in spite of claims that you need something special for this pickup, so anything reasonable that you get should be ok, and should sound quite similar, with the exception of ToneDexter, which has it's own special added-value that you can't get with just EQ or whatever.

(Not trying to sell you a ToneDexter, I have no skin in the game, and what works for different people varies widely. Just want to clear up the "one trick pony" perception)

Tonedexter rules! While I am waiting for my k&k mini installation on my custom....I have been trying out some of my guitars with no pickups by using a DiMarzio removable piezo contact pickup. I like the sound really, pretty good but it needs preamp help or there is no level..or anything. I was running it through Tonedexter the other day - I was playing my OM18A, which has no pickup and hence no wavemap, and I was using some previous maps from various guitars but.....no good, too plinky?? So I turned the Character knob full left..pickup only and it isn’t too bad - like Doug said above, TD is a great preamp/DI so while I had no wavemap I had gain, volume, tone etc.

Of course, you wouldn’t buy the Tonedexter to do this! but once you have one it gives other options!

But with the soundhole pickup I have tried through TD, I prefer with almost full wavemap of a totally different guitar. But the thing is I like it...and I would also not buy TD to do this but it is fantastic to experiment.

Can’t wait for my K&K to try..should be close to done now, surely.?


BluesKing777.

[gfirob]

Well, clearly the OP has limitations in his outlook, so he has found his solution, but I am very glad to see the Tonedexter getting a little love on this post. I think anyone facing this quandry (what preamp should I use with the K&K) should listen to the signal the K&K is sending to the amp with headsets. Listen to the pure signal without your ears hearing the acoustic sound of the guitar in your lap. And focus on that sound because that is the sound that your amplifier is going to deliver to the audience. You will notice that it does not sound like the guitar in your lap all by itself. So if you want the actual sound of that guitar, (which you probably sought out and found and paid a fair amount of money for) then your options are—play through a mike or play through a Tonedexter.

[dcmey]

K&K mini's get a lot of love on this forum, but I have never understood it. I haven't used one but have listened to video's on youtube. IMO it doesn't sound any better than my LR Baggs M1A or a Baggs M80.

[J Patrick]

Originally Posted by dcmey

K&K mini's get a lot of love on this forum, but I have never understood it. I haven't used one but have listened to video's on youtube. IMO it doesn't sound any better than my LR Baggs M1A or a Baggs M80.

..."better" is subjective and the pickups you are using are known to sound great and are the choice for many players...no need to question your own setup if you like it....and until you actually use a a K&K you'll never know if you prefer them or not...btw I know a number of players that have passed on K&K pups after trying them...bottom line...there is no pickup that works for everybody..

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by dcmey

K&K mini's get a lot of love on this forum, but I have never understood it. I haven't used one but have listened to video's on youtube. IMO it doesn't sound any better than my LR Baggs M1A or a Baggs M80.

Hi dcmey

Magnetic pickups (both Baggs you listed) are far less responsive, and non-acoustic sounding when amplified than contact pickups (which the K&K Pure mini are). They are more bullet proof in regards to feedback, but not really acoustic sounding. K&Ks get a lot of love and respect because of what they sound like live and how well they work, not because of any discussions on a forum or advertising.

The K&K are more organic sounding through an amp or PA than a mag pickup. They pick up and reflect many acoustic aspects which are transferred via the saddle/bridge (including hand noise, tapping on the body, percussive drop strums etc). They reflect the changes in attack between fingerpicking and plectrum, all flesh fingerpicking and nails etc. Mag pickups only echo the strings they are sensing…

You referenced videos on YouTube, which is no way to judge any guitar or pickup combination. Pickups are not intended to bypass speakers, and when recorded direct sound sub-par. And the quality of YouTube recordings is often very amateur.

I mix sound for others, and of all the pickups 'out there' that I end up running through PA systems, the K&K are the most guitar-like, and my favorites. I know how to mix them and carry a spare preamp (with DI capabilities) in case the user doesn't have one. They produce a very solid and acoustic, sound.

Also, the quality of the preamp used and the system played through affect the quality of all pickups (or effects etc). On YouTube the quality of the camera and the microphone certainly affect the quality of the sound (not to mention the speakers playing YouTube clips/video).

You may very well have heard K&Ks live without knowing it since most people who use them don't put any bumper stickers, or labels on the guitar or gear to call attention to the gear. They just want to make great sounding music…

[varmonter]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Ah, got it, so you really mean that amplification in general is a one-time thing. That's a somewhat unusual situation, but it makes sense not to spend money in that case. Might be a good case for just borrowing something.

this.. if you can borrow one do so. a good learning experience
without incurring cost. I find the kk is nice but needs
at a minimum a di box. despite what i've read
here... if you are plugging directly into a board
now you will hear a big difference in your sound
by going through a di box. Most preamps also
act as di. most di boxes don't have preamps,
so if you get a unit like the kk pure xlr.
you will be getting eq,di and preamp in one unit.
a preamp boosts your signal. which gives the board a stronger
signal to work with( more headroom(more volume before distortion)) a di simply converts your hi impedance
signal to a low impedance mic level signal. enabling
longer cable runs. and an eq adjusts the tone bass mid treble..

[dcmey]

Originally Posted by J Patrick

..."better" is subjective and the pickups you are using are known to sound great and are the choice for many players...no need to question your own setup if you like it....and until you actually use a a K&K you'll never know if you prefer them or not...btw I know a number of players that have passed on K&K pups after trying them...bottom line...there is no pickup that works for everybody..

That is true. I have a Baggs M1A which works great for me, I did adjust pole pieces in it, and it does sounds very natural. I am sure every pickup needs some tweeking.