How loud is the output on your Taylor ES2?

[ii Cybershot ii]

I have 3 different systems in various guitars

ES1
ES2
Fishman Matrix VT

The ES2 is much quieter than the others. Cranked to full volume it might have 75% of the volume of the ES1 and about 65% the volume of the Matrix. The ES1 used to be softer than other pickups and the Taylor literature said they made the ES2 hotter to be more comparable in output to the rest of the industry.

I have spent a lot of time tweaking the little pole pieces and learning how the ES2 works. I have also tried micarta, bone, and tusq saddles. I have to say that my ES2 picks up tons of string squeak, pick noise, body tapping etc, but the actual guitar is not very loud. I'm starting to wonder if something is wrong with my system.

Has anyone else compared the output of their ES2 to other systems?

Thanks.

[guitaniac]

In case you haven't seen it, here's a currently running thread from someone else who's having output level problems with the ES2.

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=477607

His issues seem much worse than yours. 65% of the Matrix level is still plenty to work with in most situations. As an open mic host, I deal with a wide spectrum of output levels from active and passive systems. Of the active systems, the ones with 3v power supplies (like the original ES1) tend to put out the weakest signals.

In the case of the ES2, it may well be such a dynamically responsive pickup that the Taylor folks want to give it plenty of headroom for aggressive players with a strong string attack.

I once had a barn door style Aura system which had adjustable gain which could be set to accommodate the player's style(s). It was a most welcome feature, from my perspective.

[SpruceTop]

When using a 1/4" instrument cord, the ES2 is hotter than the various ES1 versions. When using an XLR balanced cord, the ES1 was hotter than it was when using a 1/4" instrument cord. I don't have any gain problems with the ES2 as it seems pretty hot but I no longer have any ES1 Taylors to compare against my ES2 Taylors.

[ii Cybershot ii]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

In case you haven't seen it, here's a currently running thread from someone else who's having output level problems with the ES2.

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=477607

His issues seem much worse than yours. 65% of the Matrix level is still plenty to work with in most situations. As an open mic host, I deal with a wide spectrum of output levels from active and passive systems. Of the active systems, the ones with 3v power supplies (like the original ES1) tend to put out the weakest signals.

In the case of the ES2, it may well be such a dynamically responsive pickup that the Taylor folks want to give it plenty of headroom for aggressive players with a strong string attack.

I once had a barn door style Aura system which had adjustable gain which could be set to accommodate the player's style(s). It was a most welcome feature, from my perspective.

Hmmm I think that might not be the right thread?

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

When using a 1/4" instrument cord, the ES2 is hotter than the various ES1 versions. When using an XLR balanced cord, the ES1 was hotter than it was when using a 1/4" instrument cord. I don't have any gain problems with the ES2 as it seems pretty hot but I no longer have any ES1 Taylors to compare against my ES2 Taylors.

Thanks for the input. I am using a 1/4" cord and my ES2 is softer than the ES1 by a good margin.

I do like the guitar sound of the ES2, very natural. I'm probably going to give Taylor a call.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by ii Cybershot ii

Hmmm I think that might not be the right thread?

Oops. My bad. Here's the thread which I was thinking of:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=477191


There have also been two (other) threads recently mentioning that the ES2 system has been redesigned and that a lower output is apparently one of the features of the new design. See comment #6 in this thread:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=478147


If the ES2 system happens to have a greater dynamic response than your Matrix system, then it may well be a good thing (for aggressive players, at least) that the pre-set gain (and subsequently the perceived signal strength) is set lower to provide more headroom for a strong string attack.

[JWJ915]

The first link in the above post was started by me. I've had the same issue with my ES2 - very low output - too low, in my opinion. Have you had any success in figuring anything out with yours?

[ii Cybershot ii]

Originally Posted by JWJ915

The first link in the above post was started by me. I've had the same issue with my ES2 - very low output - too low, in my opinion. Have you had any success in figuring anything out with yours?

The only thing that helps is a compressor at the beginning of the chain so I can turn up the signal from there. I notice from your thread you have one in there already.

I did manage to play some ES2 guitars at guitar center and seemed like most of the systems were just like mine, however one was not. Didn't get to check out the pole pieces on it so I don't know, probably not a worthy test.

[ii Cybershot ii]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Oops. My bad. Here's the thread which I was thinking of:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=477191


There have also been two (other) threads recently mentioning that the ES2 system has been redesigned and that a lower output is apparently one of the features of the new design. See comment #6 in this thread:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=478147


If the ES2 system happens to have a greater dynamic response than your Matrix system, then it may well be a good thing (for aggressive players, at least) that the pre-set gain (and subsequently the perceived signal strength) is set lower to provide more headroom for a strong string attack.

Thanks for these links!

[Cochese]

isee below

[Cochese]

The ES2 should be louder than the ES1 running unbalanced. Did you try a new battery? The string squeak is normal.

[DMZ]

What did Taylor say when you called them?

My ES2 does what is intended and quite well!

[SpruceTop]

My latest Taylor, with a September 2016 serial number, sounds pretty hot and about the same as the other four 2015 through 2016 serial-numbered ES2-equipped Taylors I have. When did Taylor do something to the ES2 preamp to make it less hot? I haven't heard anything about this until this thread. Is this an Internet rumor? I have heard that Taylor is now buying their tonewoods from Martin Guitars but I haven't substantiated this yet.

[guitaniac]

With regard to the ES2 output level, here's a quote from the Taylor website:

Like the original Expression System, the ES2 features the same volume and tone control knobs. The preamp is similar but with a slightly different gain structure. As a result it will be about 25 percent hotter, which is more in line with other pickups. This makes it plug-and-play friendly both for artists and live sound mixers.

I presume this claim refers to the ES2 being 25% hotter than the latest ES1 version. The original ES1 operated with a 3v power supply and had an very low unbalanced output which was a concern to many users at the time. Taylor was expecting folks to use a TRS to XLR cable to run to a mic input, but they eventually redesigned the ES system to be more compatible with an unbalanced cable. (Mohammed went to the mountain.)

In any event, the ES2 is designed to have a stronger output than the ES1, according to the Taylor website. Its indeed curious that some users are reporting the opposite to be true. I look forward to reading the explanation which they'll be getting from Taylor support. Perhaps the "rumors" (that the ES2 preamp was redesigned for 2017) will be substantiated, and perhaps they won't.

[Cochese]

Originally Posted by ii Cybershot ii

I have 3 different systems in various guitars

ES1
ES2
Fishman Matrix VT

The ES2 is much quieter than the others. Cranked to full volume it might have 75% of the volume of the ES1 and about 65% the volume of the Matrix. The ES1 used to be softer than other pickups and the Taylor literature said they made the ES2 hotter to be more comparable in output to the rest of the industry.

I have spent a lot of time tweaking the little pole pieces and learning how the ES2 works. I have also tried micarta, bone, and tusq saddles. I have to say that my ES2 picks up tons of string squeak, pick noise, body tapping etc, but the actual guitar is not very loud. I'm starting to wonder if something is wrong with my system.

Has anyone else compared the output of their ES2 to other systems?

Thanks.

What are you plugging these guitars into? What is your signal chain?

[Cochese]

Originally Posted by ii Cybershot ii

... Didn't get to check out the pole pieces on it so I don't know, probably not a worthy test.

Pole pieces? The ES2 has no pole pieces.