5120 Gretsch PUP Upgrades: Worth it ?

[psychojohn]

Got a deal I couldn't refuse on a Gretsch 5120 with Licensed Bigsby. Muddier tone not at the White Flacon level which for me defines Gretsch tone. Many pay $150 or more a pup for TV Jones pups and say they are close. Other's pay $35 a pup for GFS Retrotron Nashville Ceramic and say they are close to the TV Jones, some not. I also noted there is now a "Hot" version of the Nashville pups at the same price. I know it's opinion, but is the difference between the TV Jones and Nashville worth the extra cash ? Are the Hot Nashville any closer to the gretsch tone than the regular Nashville ? any thoughts would be helpful!

[blue]

These decisions are very personal. The way I would use that guitar, it would always run through my Fender reverb tank. I could make it as treble-y and cutting as I want to defeat the mud. I would spend the $300 on a used tank.

If you like to tinker, buy the GFS bridge if there isn't a discount for a set. If it's a significant improvement, you know getting better ones may be worth it. If it doesn't change much you have your answer for sure!

[psychojohn]

Originally Posted by blue

These decisions are very personal. The way I would use that guitar, it would always run through my Fender reverb tank. I could make it as treble-y and cutting as I want to defeat the mud. I would spend the $300 on a used tank.

If you like to tinker, buy the GFS bridge if there isn't a discount for a set. If it's a significant improvement, you know getting better ones may be worth it. If it doesn't change much you have your answer for sure!

I think by "tank" you are referring to amp. I use a Peavy Classic 30 and really didn't mess with reverb settings on the amp which has both a reverb knob and reverb off on button. Reverb knob set low adding some minimal reverb to clean channel as reverb button was off. I think turning on button and increasing reverb knob and treble knob will accomplish what your describing with your fender as I won't be buying another amp anytime soon, which in and of itself is a helpful answer as If I am not willing to spend $300 on another amp dedicated to this guitar, I probably shouldn't spend three hundred on pups dedicated to this guitar (the TV Jones ones). Still hoping to hear from someone who has this guitar or pups though.

John

John

[blue]

Originally Posted by psychojohn

I think by "tank" you are referring to amp.
John

John

My bad... Reverb Tank. What the "spring" setting on pedals and modelers try to copy. They can go "icepicky" really easily, with some being more so than others. but setup right, there's nothing that can touch it for Surf, Spy, rockabilly... A key component in Neil Young's sound too.

[psychojohn]

Originally Posted by blue

My bad... Reverb Tank. What the "spring" setting on pedals and modelers try to copy. They can go "icepicky" really easily, with some being more so than others. but setup right, there's nothing that can touch it for Surf, Spy, rockabilly... A key component in Neil Young's sound too.

Blue, At the risk of seeming obtuse, I am still not sure what a reverb tank is. A special amp or a separate effects hardware gets tied into amp or guitar ? For some reason flash drive not working so I cant see what is in the pic or video you attached.

John

[muscmp]

play it for a while before you change it. you may end up liking it.

play music!

[blue]

Originally Posted by psychojohn

Blue, At the risk of seeming obtuse, I am still not sure what a reverb tank is. A special amp or a separate effects hardware gets tied into amp or guitar ? For some reason flash drive not working so I cant see what is in the pic or video you attached.

John

It is a stand alone effect. It resembles a smallish amp head. Its origins are murky, but Dick Dale, surf guitar legend, got one of the prototypes, and basically determined the sound of Surf Guitar using it. The murkiness comes in because Leo Fender says he built it for guitar, but Dick says he asked for something that would help his "weak" vocal skills. I tend to side with Leo as Dick is quite a character, but who knows.

Anyway, the main difference between the reverb tank and the reverb "pan" that is inside the Fender deluxe reverb or twin reverb, is that the pans in those amps are inside a vinyl bag to isolate it from speaker vibrations, and then screwed down to the amp cabinet. It is muffled, and then screwed down hard.

The reverb pan in a reverb tank, or reverb unit as it also called, is actually floating, suspended by springs itself. So the springs inside the pan are free to take the effect beyond the reverb equipped amps. You often have to isolate the reverb unit off the stage floor to avoid sympathetic vibrations affecting the tank.

No biggie. Hope you solve your flash problem. Been there. Done that. Never fun.

[Steve DeRosa]

Back to the original question:

The 5120 came with full-size humbuckers, so the GFS Retrotrons would be essentially a drop-in fit - and you can't go wrong for the price, even without one of their frequent discounts. As far as quality is concerned, I installed one of their acoustic rigs in an old Carlo Robelli J-45 knockoff and it's not bad at all - IMO I wouldn't think twice about buying any of their electric pickups...

[psychojohn]

muscmp suggest "Play it, you might like it" and I'll admit for what it is, it sounded pretty good through my Peavy 30 classic with dirty channel on, treble all the way up and a little on reverb knob. It still didn't have the grit and bite of my Epi Swingster Royale , but FWIW is a lot easier/more enjoyable to play (for reasons I am unclear on). So the issue of upgrades remains in the future.

In my search for review comparisons between the Nashville, Nashville Plus and TV Jones PU, I found an add for a brand new White Falcon being sold by a music store with TVJones Classics already installed (from the factory it would appear). Notably lower price than with the Filtertrons. Wow ! That is quite an endorsement of the TV Jones PU whether installed at factory or by guitar store. Still not ready to drop $300 on a set, but thought it was interesting to see a brand new falcon sold with the TV Jones pups right out of the gates.

JOhn

[zabdart]

My limited knowledge of Gretsch pickups goes like this: Gretsch, at least until the 1970s, was known for the lower output of its pickups (unlike Gibson and Fender) which produced a brighter, more sparkling sound. TV Jones pickups attempt to recapture that lower output 50s and 60s Gretsch sound because in the 1970s and from then on Gretsch went to higher output pickups because the trend was to play with distortion and effects boxes (every effects box or pedal you plug between your amplifier and your guitar draws off a certain amount of output). Ceramic magnets are stronger then alnico magnets, so the same amount of output can be achieved with less copper wire in the pickup. The disadvantage to them is their harsh sound (even at lower volumes). They're great if you like to play with a lot of distortion, but if you're going for warm, clean tone, forget about it. Pickups with ceramic magnets will not deliver that.

[muscmp]

Originally Posted by psychojohn

muscmp suggest "Play it, you might like it" and I'll admit for what it is, it sounded pretty good through my Peavy 30 classic with dirty channel on, treble all the way up and a little on reverb knob. It still didn't have the grit and bite of my Epi Swingster Royale , but FWIW is a lot easier/more enjoyable to play (for reasons I am unclear on). So the issue of upgrades remains in the future.

JOhn

john: i wouldn't want two guitars to sound the same. otherwise you only need one. take advantage of what each guitar does well. don't try to force them to be what they aren't.

play music!

[psychojohn]

Originally Posted by muscmp

john: i wouldn't want two guitars to sound the same. otherwise you only need one. take advantage of what each guitar does well. don't try to force them to be what they aren't.

play music!

Interesting point. I originally bought my Epi Swingster Royale because of it's resemblance to the white falcon played by N. Young with a tone in that direction. I didn't purchase the Gretsch to replicate the Swingster, but in the hopes of getting closer to that Gretsch White Falcon tone of Neil's, thus the questions about the PUs. Since discovering the White Falcon now coming with TV Jones PU for $2999.00, I am rethinking that chase, as between the Epi and the gretsch I've already spent about 1/3 that, am debating adding more cost in the name of the chase and still may not be there. I might be better just selling them both and putting some money toward the White falcon and just be done with it.

I did, however, find zabdart's info interesting and informative. Playing last night I noticed a few minor issues, so it is going to my set up guy to get it perfect and then we'll see form there.

John