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Old 07-02-2013, 11:09 AM
AcousticBuckeye AcousticBuckeye is offline
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Default Fingerstyle BPM - Hanson Travis Picking

All,

I read one review that suggested working on each exercise to at least 120BPM. I wanted to ask the group if that's about right before moving on to new exercises.

What would you say is the normal BPM range for fignerstyle songs in general.

Thanks

AB
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Old 07-02-2013, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by AcousticBuckeye View Post
...What would you say is the normal BPM range for fignerstyle songs in general.
Hi AB....

Since music tempos vary from very slow to fast, there is no 'normal' or average beats-per-minute one can set the metronome at.

You might email Mark Hanson directly if you have questions about the tempo of any of his songs. He is approachable...

You could also go to YouTube and look up Mark playing, and if your metronome has a TAP TEMPO function, see where he's playing songs.


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Old 07-02-2013, 01:53 PM
AcousticBuckeye AcousticBuckeye is offline
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I'm not looking for specifics on songs. I just want to know a good BPM to shoot for that would cover let's say 90% of the fingerstyle songs out there. I understand BPM can change for any song but again just want a good BPM to slowly but surely increase my metronome to for each exercise.

AB
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:57 PM
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I just want to know a good BPM to shoot for that would cover let's say 90% of the fingerstyle songs out there.
I'm sorry but that number does not exist. It depends on the song.

Last edited by Guest 33123; 07-02-2013 at 02:06 PM.
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Old 07-02-2013, 03:26 PM
JanVigne JanVigne is offline
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Complexity is going to determine how fast you should/can play a song. Watch Tommy Emmanuel and you'll see someone who can play very complex material at blazing speeds. Most of us don't even pretend we can be another TE. But then, most of us aren't playing TE's material.

If you can play most songs at 120 bpm cleanly - really cleanly, you can play most songs.

If you can play most songs at 180 bpm, you can play most anything other than what Ike Turner recorded.



If you can play a song cleanly and with interest at 40 bpm, you'll have accomplished a surprising feat IMO. It's more difficult to play a song slowly and cleanly than at, say, 120 bpm where you can let slide a lot of your fingering mistakes.
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Old 07-02-2013, 04:04 PM
mcasey329 mcasey329 is offline
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I can play anything with whole notes at 180BPM .
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Old 07-02-2013, 04:11 PM
AcousticBuckeye AcousticBuckeye is offline
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Ok thanks I just wanted verification on if 120 was a good number to use an upper limit. I understand that you can always do faster but that's not my goal. Just want to be able to say "I'm ready to move on to the next exercise"

Thanks


Quote:
Originally Posted by JanVigne View Post
Complexity is going to determine how fast you should/can play a song. Watch Tommy Emmanuel and you'll see someone who can play very complex material at blazing speeds. Most of us don't even pretend we can be another TE. But then, most of us aren't playing TE's material.

If you can play most songs at 120 bpm cleanly - really cleanly, you can play most songs.

If you can play most songs at 180 bpm, you can play most anything other than what Ike Turner recorded.



If you can play a song cleanly and with interest at 40 bpm, you'll have accomplished a surprising feat IMO. It's more difficult to play a song slowly and cleanly than at, say, 120 bpm where you can let slide a lot of your fingering mistakes.
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Old 07-03-2013, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JanVigne View Post
Complexity is going to determine how fast you should/can play a song. Watch Tommy Emmanuel and you'll see someone who can play very complex material at blazing speeds. Most of us don't even pretend we can be another TE. But then, most of us aren't playing TE's material.

If you can play most songs at 120 bpm cleanly - really cleanly, you can play most songs.

If you can play most songs at 180 bpm, you can play most anything other than what Ike Turner recorded.



If you can play a song cleanly and with interest at 40 bpm, you'll have accomplished a surprising feat IMO. It's more difficult to play a song slowly and cleanly than at, say, 120 bpm where you can let slide a lot of your fingering mistakes.
After reading a couple of your posts, I set my metronome at 40 bpm, and set about attempting to play songs that I have no problem playing cleanly at 80-120bpm. All I have to say is that it's so frustratingly difficult to play at 40bpm. Gave me a whole new perspective.
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Old 07-03-2013, 04:35 PM
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Default Fingerstyle BPM - Hanson Travis Picking

Email Mr. Hanson and see what he suggests for the material. I emailed him with a question late one night and by gosh I had an answer back from him the next morning.
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Old 07-03-2013, 05:27 PM
AcousticBuckeye AcousticBuckeye is offline
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Sounds good. Will do.

AB

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Email Mr. Hanson and see what he suggests for the material. I emailed him with a question late one night and by gosh I had an answer back from him the next morning.
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Old 07-03-2013, 06:01 PM
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After reading a couple of your posts, I set my metronome at 40 bpm, and set about attempting to play songs that I have no problem playing cleanly at 80-120bpm. All I have to say is that it's so frustratingly difficult to play at 40bpm. Gave me a whole new perspective.
I was interested to note that on his SGGW Woodshed forum, Stefan Grossman recently said that he never used a metronome and doesn't recommend them.
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Old 07-03-2013, 06:58 PM
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That is rather a slow tempo for tunes where the duration notes are mostly a full beat. Of course most tunes are not like that, so yes, it depends on the tune.
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Old 07-03-2013, 07:29 PM
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There is an class of practice activity which involves repeatedly playing a short section very slowly but in perfect relative time. You do this to learn basic alternating thumb patterns, you do it to learn unusual fretting or picking situations, you also do this in all levels of playing to address those little problems which always interupt the smooth flow of the piece.

When I do this there are three stages to it. Stage one is play it slowly and discover what the problem actually is. It might be the left hand, it might be the right hand or it might be both. The second stage is, repeat playing it slowly and in time and also conciously flag up what the problem (and of course its solution) is in advance of getting to it. If your stage one is right then stage two will not take more than a few times through before you can play the section at the correct speed. Stage three is to integrate the section into the rest of the piece. If stage one was just one bar then start playing it from a few bars before, again deliberately flagging up the problem in advance. After this you should be able to play the piece correctly. At first you should do the advance flagging bit each time but eventually it wont be needed.

An experienced player doing this should not need a metronome. A beginner only needs a metronome if they haven't developed their own internal clock. Once they can play something in time, out of time playing is indicating a different problem.

As an aside, I had been playing for over 20 years in all sort of groups before I realised that I had a habit of speeding up when it came to my lead break. Human drummers, and dancers, would speed up with me but digital drums didn't!
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticBuckeye View Post
Ok thanks I just wanted verification on if 120 was a good number to use an upper limit. I understand that you can always do faster but that's not my goal. Just want to be able to say "I'm ready to move on to the next exercise"

Thanks
As the others say, it really depends on the tune, and also on how you're counting the beat.
Eg, in alternating bass, some BPMs will count every thumb stroke, some will count only beats 1 and 3 (in what is known as "cut time" or 2/2).
Obviously, with the latter the thumb is moving twice as fast.

The right BPM to practice at is the one where you can play every note accurately and with good articulation. That may feel quite slow, but accuracy (and good tone) is more important than speed. It's often good, in fact, to play slower than your comfortable speed, to really be able to control every note, put some expression into it.

You're "ready to move on to the next exercise" when you're sure you're really in command of the current one, that you understand it inside out, and can play in time at a reasonable speed (not necessarily fast).
There is no BPM that can possibly apply to every exercise, because it's all relative.
(120 bpm happens to be a standard "medium" tempo commonly set as the default on drum machines. That's where the figure comes from.)
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Old 07-04-2013, 08:01 AM
JanVigne JanVigne is offline
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"After reading a couple of your posts, I set my metronome at 40 bpm, and set about attempting to play songs that I have no problem playing cleanly at 80-120bpm. All I have to say is that it's so frustratingly difficult to play at 40bpm. Gave me a whole new perspective."



It's the perspective thing that's important here IMO. Like putting a penny under a microscope.



Now that I think about it, does anyone still keep a penny? Or, use a microscope?




Do you feel the exercise made any improvements in your playing at faster tempos? Or, just frustrated you at the slowest speed?
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