Changing over to fingerstyle - how long?

[Methos1979]

I've been playing for several years, but on and off and I'm a hack at best. Recently (probably 4 months ago) started up an acoustic duo gig with my wife on vocals. We have been playing open mic nights for a couple months and having a ball.

I have always loved the sound of fingerstyle playing and dabbled just a little bit. I love the feel and connection you have with the guitar when playing with fingers. With a pick there is a disconnect there. I've been practicing more and more of our songs fingerstyle and now I'm at the point where I need to go one way or the other because the duality is causing me to make mistakes on both.

I want to go completely over to fingerstyle but I'm wondering about how long it will take to get there. There are a couple of problems I'm having with the amplified sound. Getting a good balance of tone when strumming with my thumb only means I have to turn up the volume but then I get those pesky notes when my nail (kept very short) picks up a string accidentally.

I know it's just a matter of time and dedication and everyone is different but I just wanted to get feedback from others that have gone this route and see how long it too you to make the change over, and are there any tips you can share that made things better I can try, or worse and I should avoid!

We only do this for fun and time is on our side. But patience isn't my strong suit. I practice alone probably 2 hours a day during the week and then the wife and I practice on weekends together. Some days it's great and I'm psyched and then the next day it will suck and I'll want to go back to the pick. But I know that will just be counter productive.

[Gcunplugged]

I play primarily with my fingers but still do some strumming, and single note lead stuff with a pick. I would suggest that you don't have to do one or the other but both are manageable if you have sufficient time to practice.

After all, it's kinda hard to finger pick Take it Easy, and similarly kinda hard to strum Tears in Heaven.

One other piece of advice... Decide early on if you are going to use a thumb pick when playing with fingers. Originally I did NOT use a thumb pick, and decided to make the switch after several years, and after seeing a Tommy Emmanuel show. It took me 3-4 months to make the switch, during which time I sounded terrible. Of course you could argue that I still sound terrible, but then that is a debate for another day

Hth,
GC

[DaveKell]

After my dad starting me on guitar at the age of 9 after seeing the Beatles first American appearance, I played all the way up to the age of 40. I usually always had an electric but Glenn Campbell did detour me into Ovation acoustics for a time. At 40 I picked up the role of playing electric bass in a very large church orchestra because nobody else was available to do it and I could run right out and buy a bass then. I had no concept of how it was a rhythm instrument, but our director who held a Masters in music and could play almost any instrument on the planet eventually made a decent bassist out of me. During this time I rarely if ever touched a guitar again for 15 years. I eventually gave up the bassist role to an eager youngster and went back to guitar. I couldn't even play the near pro level bluegrass chops anymore i used to have.

Most of my life I held a goal of learning fingerstyle play and decided to devote myself to it. I recently received a custom hand built OM that was designed exclusively for fingerstyle play and it has really upped my game. At the age of 60 though I don't learn as fast as I used to and it was like being a complete beginner again. I searched for instructional material, dvd's and the like, and bought several books. The best dvd I found was Merle Travis' son Thom Bresh teaching Travis picking. I quickly learned the tabs were vastly dumbed down from what he was actually playing in the video and it kind of pissed me off. I'm making great progress with the new OM and by constantly backing up the dvd to learn the songs visually phrase by phrase. It's working quite well for me and I'll probably never resort to tab again. The best advice I can give is have a guitar that is well suited to fingerstyle play, the right tool for the job and accept it is NEVER going to come as quickly as learning to strum a song. It is nothing for me to take 3-4 months of intense effort to nail down a new fingerstyle piece and I've learned to enjoy the journey as much as arriving at the destination.

It depends on what you mean by "fingerstyle". There are a some styles that are fairly easy, and you could pick them up pretty quickly; there are some fingerstyles that are difficult, and you could spend a lifetime studying them. IMHO, the style you need to back a vocalist is very straightforward. It can be expanded and refined over time, if you want, but you don't have to.

[frankhond]

I would suggest to take a few technique oriented lessons with a fingerstyle teacher. The main issues are evenness of tone and volume. Your hand needs to be relaxed in the right way, and you need to play for volume, acoustically. It could be you are playing too quiet and have the amp turned up to compensate, which increases the risk of pesky notes. Also nail care is a big subject, you need to shape the nails every day with 600 or so gauge wet-sanding sandpaper. Keep at it and it wont take long at all.

[Methos1979]

Originally Posted by frankhond

I would suggest to take a few technique oriented lessons with a fingerstyle teacher. The main issues are evenness of tone and volume. Your hand needs to be relaxed in the right way, and you need to play for volume, acoustically. It could be you are playing too quiet and have the amp turned up to compensate, which increases the risk of pesky notes. Also nail care is a big subject, you need to shape the nails every day with 600 or so gauge wet-sanding sandpaper. Keep at it and it wont take long at all.

Thanks to all who have responded thus far. This post is very close to the info I'm looking for from the standpoint of the whole volume/tone eveness issue. As for nail care, I don't plan to play with nails, just finger pads, which of course makes for quieter playing as well. I have tried on a couple occasions to grow my nails long enough to be useful but just cannot do it. Partly because I work with my hands a lot and longer nails break but honestly and mostly just because I can't stand the look and especially the feel of long nails. I've kept them so short my whole life and changing over now drives me crazy. So pads it is for me.

I'm already starting to see improvement now that I've made the decision to just stick with it. It will take some time and adjustment and there might even be some songs that will have to go but so be it. I'm really digging how much more I feel I can do with fingers vs. a pick. I tried using a thumbpick and that didn't work well for me at all. Whereas I'm using the pads of my fingers there is way too much difference in volume between the two.

I have started taking a few lessons here and there with a local guy I know and respect so I'll see what he says. Here's a question though: I know most of the online videos and books I've seen say to play the first three strings (from the top) with the thumb and then the remaining ones with the index, middle and ring finger respectively. And while I very generally do that, I also find that I will on occasion use my thumb for all but the last (first) string (on a downstroke) and will on occasion use my index for higher strings. I base this more on feel than anything. I do not anchor my pinky, and never have and never will. I am finding that relaxing my hand is key to being more accurate and making less mistakes.

Any more thoughts on any of this?

[frankhond]

Since you are just starting out, dont develop an anchoring habit. Use instead the concept of "planting" which comes from classical guitar originally. Kottke, Hedges and many other advanced players use this, it not only helps kepp the right hand in position, but also lets you control the duration of notes. One place to get this explained is Scott Tennants video "pumping nylon", or ask a goid classical guitar instructor.

The hand position and finger/string assignment is as you describe but it is only a start. In fact you can use any digit for any string, which will have different consequences. If you play higher strings with thumb, you can use the side of the thumb to dampen the lower ones, also it will give a different accent. You can play single note lines by alternating thumb/afingerofyourchoice, all the way to the lowest string. Etc. Look up lots of post-fingerpick Leo Kottke videos, his hand is all over the place yet the playing is completely fluid. Or Pierre Bensusan...

Also for best effect make sure you use the muscles in your forearm to pluck. Not the hand/finger muscles, which will shape a "claw". Your fingertip should be like a violin bow over the string.

[Irish Pennant]

I wish I could answer this question. I play mostly without a pick but I can't say I play finger style. I have my own style of playing fingers that hasn't had any outside influence so I'm sure it's riddled with technique errors, but it works for me.

[GibbyPrague]

I'm in a similar situation as you where Ive been gigging for two years exclusively with a flatpick but embarked on a fingerpicin journey to extend our reportoire.

I started pretty much from scratch when it comes to fignerpickin' and it took me about 5 months of daily practice to be able to perform our first finigerpcking song which was Landslide (Fleetwood Mac).

Since then we've added 5 more fingerpicking songs which generally have a repeating pattern and I have to say these songs get a realy positive reaction.

So, summarising, it took me abotu 5 months to perform in public the first song and now 10 months on Im pretty comfortable and not getting nervous anymore with about 5-6 tracks, and adding more tracks regularly ..

I personally found the 'anchoring' technique to be critical in order to have stability early on, but now Im starting to rely less and less on it, but early on it was what made the difference between utter frustration and progress.

All the best, its a new world there when you start using your fingers ..

[Bern]

Originally Posted by Methos1979

But patience isn't my strong suit.

THAT is a common problem. Developing the dexterity of the picking hand takes longer for some people than it'll take for others. There is really no way to put a time frame on your development.

[Fatfingerjohn]

You're getting good advice here; just remember there are some things that people will say you must do and others will say you must not. It comes down then to personal preference and what is easiest for you e.g. anchor pinky or not.

Re which fingers to use for which strings I think its a good idea to get into the basic habit of using thumb for 3 bass strings and fingers 1,2,3 for the top 3. This will allow you to develop a rhythm and consistency and give you the framework fro moving on. Try to get this totally under your belt so that it is totally without need for thought. Then you can ring the changes.

But the most important thing to me is where a few people have commented that its not a 'changeover process' as you put it. You are simply adding variety to what you can do. I prefer fingerstyle but still strum 25%. I also have developed styles which merge the 2; either with a 'pick and strum' pattern; or changing between fingerstyle and strumming within a song e.g. chorus one style, verse the other. And on some occasions, changing within a verse or even a line. Once you are able to do this smoothly you will have added such variety to your performance. Best of all worlds!

[Tuxcat]

Most definitely don't take anyone's advice too seriously (including mine). The more connected feel of fingerstyle means that you will probably enjoy letting the guitar take you where it wants to go.

There's no need to go one way or the other. I play 99% fingerstyle in my solo material, but I play lead in 2 bands and have much better luck using a pick since rhythm players all do and I don't want my sound to get lost. I also tend to play lead lines that benefit from the sharper attack. Finger picking is just another tool--no sense abandoning something that might be useful!

I have tried thumb picks but have given up on them mostly because I use pinches quite a bit, especially on my harp guitar. Thumb picks just get in the way and make the pinched chords sound uneven. For some strums, I use my index finger curled up so I'm strumming with the "back" part of my finger. It gives a thinner but more distinct sound that's just the right thing sometimes. It also works well for quick strums where you want the strumming texture but not necessarily a thick sound.

Technique lessons are a great start. Just remember that in the end, it all comes down to what works for you. Case in point: I have found that picking with my right middle finger severely aggravates tendonitis in my right elbow, so I play with my thumb, index, and ring fingers. I don't recommend it for everyone, but it works for me. It also makes it easy to hold a flat pick for when I need it. I curl it up in my middle finger like a magician would hold a coin, and it's handy but out of the way. Strange yes, but it works

[mr. beaumont]

I can never understand the fixation with being fingers only. There's a lot of cool stuff you can do with a pick. The idea of fingerstyle being somehow "more intimate" or whatever is a bunch of hooey. It ain't how you play, it's what.

I play both and feel the same connection both ways. And both ways take practice to get good. Guitar is not for the impatient.

[LoMa]

There are lots of styles of fingerstyle and no particular one is the right way. The right way is what works for you. If you watch and listen to several guitarists and think that's what I want to play, you can see how that guitarist plays.

Some fingerstylists play with fingerpicks and that involves certain techniques. Others play with a combo or only with nails or fingertips. Some anchor their hands, some play with fingers a-flying, and others park their fingers on certain strings. Some play with thumb and index only, some add their middle finger, while others play pima, and a few play pimae. A few play with fingers and a flatpick at the same time. Some play using classical techniques while others employ their thumb when fretting, though many do some sort of hybrid fretting styles. Some add tapping and right hand fretting as well. None are wrong. Some will be right for you.

But I'd say find a sound you like from some guitarist and then watch some youtubes to see their technique. That might give you a clue as to how best achieve that tone. Then look for some books or dvd's that employ that technique to learn from, or tell a teacher what you are after. Recognize too that our hands/brains work in certain individual ways, and what works for one doesn't necessarily work for you. So you have t work with that too.

[JoeCharter]

I have been playing guitar for 25 years now.

I started fingerstyle about five years ago.

Nowadays I enjoy playing Ozzy as much as TE.

I would love to do hybrid picking like Jeff but my numerous attempts have failed so I grew a long thumb nail instead.

FWIW I think the ability to play with a pick is just as important as playing "fingerstyle".