The old lefty vs. righty question

[Kevin A]

I'm a lefty who can't play guitar righty, but by all means, if you are a left-handed person able to play "conventionally"—more power to you. You'll not only find a greater guitar selection to choose from in stores and online, but you'll also be able to play your friend's guitars and instruments at guitar shows or jams. You'll also have an easier time reading instructional material, particularly chord diagrams.

[Mtn Man]

Just thought of something else, somewhat apropot to the discussion I suppose. The guy who won Merlefest this year (fairly high level flatpicking contest for those of you who don't know) is a lefty who plays a guitar lefty but strung righty. So the bass strings are down and the treble strings are up. I've seen a handful of blues guys play that way but never a flatpicker. He was a good rhythm player too, which surprised me more than anything. No idea how he did it but he had it all worked out. His name was Michael Ballard. He won a $4,000 guitar for his troubles. So...I guess that's another solution. Talk about doing it the hard way!

Here's a video of him playing the guitar he won, right after the contest. Tough to see due to the distance, and hear due to the banjo, but you get the idea.

2013 Merlefest Contest Winners

Edit: And here's a video of him being presented with the guitar. The presenter interviews him. And somehow forgets to ask the most important question of all...why the HECK would you learn to play that way???? LOL.

Merlefest Guitar Presentation

[Bern]

Originally Posted by Mtn Man

So...I guess that's another solution.

I would rather say, that it is more of an exception.

[islander53]

Originally Posted by Mtn Man

The guy who won Merlefest this year ... is a lefty who plays a guitar lefty but strung righty. So the bass strings are down and the treble strings are up.

Bill Staines is another one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5S5qrHWp_0

[Rockguy475]

I was told that the guitar was made by a left handed person who played it as how right handed people today play it. Regardless on if your left or right handed you should learn with your left hand being your fret hand and your right being your strum/picking hand. This would actually give a left person the advantage to learning finger picking.

Guess it really doesn't matter as long as the player is comfortable though

[islander53]

Originally Posted by Mtn Man

There's a reason the guitar was designed to be played with the dominant hand as the pick hand. The picking hand is the "attack" hand. It controls the volume, tone, and dynamics of the instrument, and it is the hand that causes the instrument to produce sound. Fiddlers/violinists will tell you the same thing about the bow hand. The dominant hand should, in a perfect world, always be the hand that attacks the instrument and causes it to make noise.

The fretting hand, as busy as it is at times, is the passive hand. It appears to do more, but is less important in terms of the way the guitar sounds. The fretting hand reacts to the pick hand, which leads.

...people try to tell me there's no difference, it's all in the way you learn. I say the human body is designed to function a certain way. ...There are times you should fight against the current, but this isn't one of them IMO.

My experience has been that being left-handed is a great advantage when playing right-handed. Why? Because it allowed me to be super proficient on the fret board; better precision. And I've never had a problem with the right hand as far as the dynamics of my playing goes. It all comes down to practice and experience, like anything else.

I'm sure there is some degree of scientific merit to your post, but in the end, all things considered, I don't think it matters. Humans are highly adaptable, and limited only by what they believe they can or cannot do.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Mtn Man

There's a reason the guitar was designed to be played with the dominant hand as the pick hand. The picking hand is the "attack" hand. It controls the volume, tone, and dynamics of the instrument, and it is the hand that causes the instrument to produce sound. Fiddlers/violinists will tell you the same thing about the bow hand. The dominant hand should, in a perfect world, always be the hand that attacks the instrument and causes it to make noise.

Hi Mtn Man...

You sounded scholarly, but your theory is suspect. And I suspect guitars are strummed/picked by the dominant hand by right handed beginners more for the convenience and tradition than ever by design or instruction.

Whether you play a conventional instrument, or reverse engineered one, the picking/plucking hand is important, but ideally it is not dominant. I've been teaching guitar for 38 years locally and it's just as much a challenge for a right handed person to equalize the output of the hands as a left handed person.

The plucking/picking hand plays a different, but equal role, to the fretting hand. If you don't believe me, start a song, and then quit using the fretting hand and see how the music instantly and fatally suffers.

Guitar is a two handed instrument, where equal development of both to even successfully achieve intermediate levels of proficiency is required.

Right handed people suffer this issue as much as left handed. As a teacher I call it hitting a wall. It's encountered several times by the most proficient players. It happens when we hit the limits of creativity, speed, imagination, and information that our current level permits.

Depending on how motivated we as players are at such a point, we either settle in at a satisfactory level (to us) of play or we work hard and progress further.

This has nothing to do with dominant hands, but dominant brains.

Oh yeah - your baseball theory. It doesn't really work either. I'm left handed, but I throw with my right hand, catch with my left, and kick with my left foot. Eat, write, & run the computer moist lefty too. I can hammer with either, and I bat lefty or righty. I'm not unusual. Many right handed throwers in the major leagues bat better left handed.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Mtn Man...

You sounded scholarly, but your theory is suspect. And I suspect guitars are strummed/picked by the dominant hand by right handed beginners more for the convenience and tradition than ever by design or instruction.

Yes, but where did the design come from, if not from a practical tradition?
IOW, it's not a chicken-and-egg thing.
In the simplest string instruments - going back to the Greek lyre, or the African earth bow - as Mtn Man says - the dominant hand produced the sound, while the weaker hand simply held the instrument.

It's easy to see, with something like the earth bow at least, that the hand holding the instrument could begin to do something like stopping the string for occasional effects, while the stronger hand continued hitting the string(s).
And easy to see how that would have led to the idea of a "neck" and a "fingerboard" making it easier to stop strings at predetermined points.

Rhythm, attack and dynamics remained dominant throughout. There would never have been any reason to change the instruments around. The weaker hand would continue to do the main holding job (along with secondary string-stopping tasks), while the stronger one would do the main playing job.

Of course this is speculation, but it's clear that all string instruments in history - bowed or plucked - have been designed and played the same way. There has to be a reason for that. I guess we could look at it the other way, and say that the music that has arisen is a result of the instruments being played that way, rather than the reason they're played that way. Perhaps rhythm is so important to us, because the dominant hand has been bashing it out for so long? If the dominant hand had been on the necks of string instruments, maybe music would have evolved very differently?

Arguably it's the invention of amplification - mics as well as electric guitars - that reduced the need for the stronger hand to be in charge of sound production. Once a good level of sound can be produced with a very light touch, then the role of the fret hand begins to seem more important than the picking/strumming hand. The concepts of dexterity, speed and flexibility become focussed more in the fret hand, especially (perhaps) because we're aware that that hand has the tougher job simply because it begins as the weakest. The picking/strumming hand begins to be seen more as a workhorse, whose essential strength has become somewhat outmoded by technology.

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Whether you play a conventional instrument, or reverse engineered one, the picking/plucking hand is important, but ideally it is not dominant.

It plays a different, but equal role, to the other hand.

True. Which is also an argument for rejecting the notion that the good hand ought to be on the frets!
Ie, it doesn't really matter which way round you play, as long as you practice harder with the weaker hand.
The common problem with those playing "the other way" (lefties playing righty, or vice versa) is that they fail to practise hard enough with the (weaker) strumming hand - and that's probably because most teaching material places so much emphasis on the job of the fret hand. That's where the magic seems to lie: in those shapes and fret patterns: the pitches. (Supported by the way music theory tends to talk more about pitch - especially its harmonic organisation - than timing and rhythm.)

But the fact is that very simple fret-hand work sounds professional if the rhythm and dynamics are tight. Fancy fret-work - however interesting the chords and melodies - sounds amateurish if the rhythmic articulation is weak. So control of picking/strumming is more important - whichever hand you assign that role to.

[Bern]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

The plucking/picking hand plays a different, but equal role, to the fretting hand. If you don't believe me, start a song, and then quit using the fretting hand and see how the music instantly and fatally suffers.

Interesting...my view is that the picking hand should always be ahead of the game in development. On an intermediate level the picking hand has to cover more of a variety of things in regards for the sound picture to be produced.
BTW, leaving out either hand will make music suffer.

[Mtn Man]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Mtn Man...

You sounded scholarly, but your theory is suspect. And I suspect guitars are strummed/picked by the dominant hand by right handed beginners more for the convenience and tradition than ever by design or instruction.

Well, thanks, I think. You sound pretty scholarly yourself. And it’s not my theory.

Also, I’m not a left-handed guy who plays righty, like you. So I have no stake in the matter in terms of justifying my personal choices. I’m just commenting on what I’ve learned and observed.

Whether you play a conventional instrument, or reverse engineered one, the picking/plucking hand is important, but ideally it is not dominant. I've been teaching guitar for 38 years locally and it's just as much a challenge for a right handed person to equalize the output of the hands as a left handed person.

I’ve found that most issues with timing, tone, dynamics, and volume originate with the picking hand. The fretting hand is important, but it exists to support what the picking hand does. The picking hand creates the vibrations that ultimately produce sound from the instrument.

The plucking/picking hand plays a different, but equal role, to the fretting hand. If you don't believe me, start a song, and then quit using the fretting hand and see how the music instantly and fatally suffers.

Well, quit using the picking hand and see what happens. No noise at all. The picking hand makes the noise, the fretting hand helps refine it. Support. Also, dominant does not necessarily equate to more important, and I think that's a distinction we're missing.

Guitar is a two handed instrument, where equal development of both to even successfully achieve intermediate levels of proficiency is required.

On this we agree. Could either hand exist without the other? Not really. But each hand has a role, and the roles are different.

Right handed people suffer this issue as much as left handed. As a teacher I call it hitting a wall. It's encountered several times by the most proficient players. It happens when we hit the limits of creativity, speed, imagination, and information that our current level permits.

Depending on how motivated we as players are at such a point, we either settle in at a satisfactory level (to us) of play or we work hard and progress further.

This has nothing to do with dominant hands, but dominant brains.

Well it all comes from the brain, doesn’t it? Can the brain be rewired? To an extent. But right/left hand dominance is what it is. You don’t get to choose, unfortunately. You can overcome, and override, as many left-handed people have done in an effort to conform to a right-handed world. But going against your natural physiology will more than likely be a limiting factor in the long run. Maybe you’re an exception, and if so, good for you. But don’t automatically assume everyone else is as exceptional as you are.

Oh yeah - your baseball theory. It doesn't really work either. I'm left handed, but I throw with my right hand, catch with my left, and kick with my left foot. Eat, write, & run the computer moist lefty too. I can hammer with either, and I bat lefty or righty. I'm not unusual.

Again, not my theory. And I’m not going to presume to know why you throw right-handed. I know one other lefty who throws right-handed, and he does it because that’s how he was taught. That doesn’t mean it’s optimal.

Many right handed throwers in the major leagues bat better left handed.

Take the “better” out of that statement and I would agree with you. Don’t forget, I tried to train my son this way, and I had reasons for doing it. Right-handed throwers don’t bat lefty because it’s easier for them, they do it because there are inherent advantages to batting lefty. One, it puts you about two steps closer to first base, and the momentum of your swing naturally carries you in that direction, so theoretically a lefty should reach first quicker than if he batted righty. Two, it allows you to pick up the ball a fraction of a second quicker if the pitcher is throwing right-handed because you have a better angle, especially if he’s a sidearm or ¾ pitcher. Since the majority of people (and, by default, pitchers) are right-handed, you’re just playing the odds by learning to bat left. That’s why switch hitters always bat opposite of the pitcher they’re facing. There are also some inherent advantages to pulling the ball to the right side of the field. Typically the better fielders (shortstop, left and center field) are on the left side of the field, so batting lefty allows you to hit away from them. In the infield, you’re better off trying to get it past a first baseman than a shortstop or a third baseman. And so on. But in my mind, none of those advantages outweigh the fact that my son really struggled to bat left. He just couldn’t seem to get it. Many can, but he couldn’t. So we switched back.

My point (if all that can be distilled down into a single point) is that is isn’t just a choice. You don’t get to decide whether you’re right or left handed. You are what you are, and your body is designed to function accordingly. The few ambidextrous exceptions don’t disprove that rule. Is it possible to override this? Of course, but you may never function at peak performance if you choose to go against your natural physiology. A lefty who throws righty will probably never be able to throw as hard or as accurately as they would with their dominant arm. Same with a lefty who learns to play guitar right handed, or vice versa. Are there exceptions to this? There are always exceptions. Are you one of them? That’s the question, isn’t it? And if you are, why would you automatically assume everyone else is as well?

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Mtn Man

...My point (if all that can be distilled down into a single point) is that is isn’t just a choice. You don’t get to decide whether you’re right or left handed.

Hi MM...

Actually you do get to make choices if your parents let you and don't obsess about it (and friends and teachers). At least that's what happened in my case.

My parents were concerned that I was doing a lot of things left handed (at under 1 yr of age) and asked the doctor how to 'fix' it, and she recommended they just let me decide. So they did...

I actually think too big a deal is made out the whole issue. And it's usually the parents bringing it up on behalf of the child. Children pretty much learn and adapt if we allow them to instead of trying to forecast and avoid every potential issue in their lives.

If it was as important an issue as we try to make it, why don't dedicated lefties type backwards on left-handed computer keyboards?

My wife and I are both left handed, play all our instruments conventionally and raised four right handed sons. We let them decide for themselves too.

I think we all get to make the choice as to how we develop our two handed coordinated skills all through life.

My first instrument was accordion, and there were no 'reverse engineered' accordions, so I learned it, and played it well for over a decade.

There were no left handed pianos, so I learned to play conventionally too. No left handed trumpets, and I paid my way through college successfully with scholarships I earned with my conventionally valved beauty.

I've taught two lefty guitarists, and it was easier to demonstrate fingerings since it's a mirror image you are working with. It was harder to write out charts because I had to think backwards.

Both students were fine, and after their first lesson, we never discussed it. They were the ones questioning it, and I suggested since they'd already developed a decent level of proficiency at it just to continue on.

Back to switch-hitting just for a minute, many batters in the majors who are right handed have a better record batting from the left side of the plate than the right. And most switch-hit from the other side of the plate if the pitcher is left-handed...so there are records to compare. (avid baseball fan here)

Then we have Phil Michelson who is a world class left-handed golfer who is right handed.

I run hammers and wrenches equally because my dad let me. Depends on which works best when I have reach in tight spots.

Yes, I think we make far too much of an issue of it. It is fun to contemplate and discuss...

[Picking Moose]

Lemme throw a silly theory at you...

On the instrument(s) the guitar originated from (either be it the "oud" or the "lute" .. there's still no clear answer) the strings were not plucked with bare fingers but with a small pick made of wood or bone.
Usually we use the "strong" hand to hold tools, specially if the tool has a "beating" property. This might explain why bowed instruments are played with the right hand holding the bow and why the guitar is played as it is now.

[SpiderTrap]

I Write left handed and that;s about it . Well I did play ball and throw and catch as a lefty would but for some odd reason , When i had a bb gun and all kinds of others later i would always shoot it right handed . I play pool right handed, so guitar felt natural right handed ...AND WAY AWKWARD LEFT HANDED ...Everyone is different . It's a part of the brain that may function slightly differently than in others ...with interconnects being more natural in one way or another ?? It's a mystery to me me , but wayyyyyy to long to change anything now ....... I play right handed as best as I can ...easy to fret with a strong left hand .

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi MM...

Actually you do get to make choices if your parents let you and don't obsess about it (and friends and teachers). At least that's what happened in my case.

My parents were concerned that I was doing a lot of things left handed (at under 1 yr of age) and asked the doctor how to 'fix' it, and she recommended they just let me decide. So they did...

That doesn't disagree with Mtn Man's point, though. The only "choice" they were allowing you was between what felt natural or unnatural to you. For you I doubt it was much of a choice; why would you choose what felt wrong?
The only people with a true choice as to whether to be LH or RH are those who are truly ambidextrous - who are pretty rare. (Although I think it's true that LH people are more often nearer to being ambidextrous than RH people are.)

Originally Posted by ljguitar

If it was as important an issue as we try to make it, why don't dedicated lefties type backwards on left-handed computer keyboards?

keyboards is a different issue.
(And some languages, like Arabic, are written and read from right to left - it's not related to handedness.)

Originally Posted by ljguitar

My first instrument was accordion, and there were no 'reverse engineered' accordions, so I learned it, and played it well for over a decade.

There were no left handed pianos, so I learned to play conventionally too. No left handed trumpets, and I paid my way through college successfully with scholarships I earned with my conventionally valved beauty.

Right, because handedness is not an issue with those instruments. (Although there may be an argument with piano, if one regards melody - in the right hand - as primary. But of course one could easily argue that the rhythmic function of the left hand suggests that should be the dominant one! I wonder how many boogie-woogie pianists were left-handed? Interesting...)

In fact - as you may be saying - there's no reason why handedness should be an issue for guitarists either. The right hand is traditionally on the picking/strumming end. That tradition suggests that hand needs to be the dominant one. But obviously the design of the instrument itself doesn't suggest that; the instrument clearly has a picking end (body) and a fretting end (neck) - but that itself doesn't dictate which is the more important task! The reason for the tradition of "weaker hand on neck" (ie left hand for most people) must be a musical one. For most people it felt natural to do it that way, because of the kinds of sounds they wanted (or needed) to make.
And that comes back to Mtn Man's point, that you have to get some kind of sound out of the instrument to begin with. You can't do that with the fret hand (unless you have an electric guitar with plenty of gain, as Hendrix and Buddy Guy - to name but two - like to demonstrate). But you can play the open strings with the other hand. So for any beginner kid bashing the instrument to get some kind of noise out of it, they're going to be using their good hand to do that.
And in classical guitar teaching, one begins by picking the open strings, the fret hand is not used. (Of course, that's a chicken-and-egg thing, built on an assumption, or tradition, that the picking hand is dominant; and therefore continuing that tradition.)

With rock and folk (etc) guitar, tradition has a similar prejudicial effect on choice, because LH people see guitar played RH most of the time, and may find it hard to get hold of LH guitars. So it would be quite common for LH people to play guitar RH, because they would think that's how it should be done (whether or not it feels odd to them).
But when LH people choose to play LH - even when it's difficult to make that choice (flipping and re-stringing RH guitars, or paying more for LH guitars, etc) - that suggests the dominant hand does need to be picking/strumming (at least those players feel that way).
Of course that's balanced by RH players choosing to play LH, because they feel the opposite! (which again comes down to the kind of sounds one thinks are important - if fancy fretwork is what appeals, then putting one's good hand on the neck is going to feel natural.)

[Otterhound]

First off , baseball has nothing to do with playing guitar just as playing guitar has nothing to do with playing baseball .
.
ljguitar states that his parents were told to let him decide and apparently they did . He chose a certain path , yet he claims at the same time that he tries to direct his beginning left handed students to play right handed . This has nothing to do with playing guitar . It is purely psychological in that he is projecting his choice on to others while lauding his being allowed to make his own choice and reinforcing those that agree to take the path that he has chosen for them as the correct and best path . This choice is most important at the very beginning , not afterwards .
What you do with this observation is your business . I just thought that I would point it out . Yes , it could be considered harsh , but sometimes the truth works that way .
There is no wrong way to play a guitar . Playing poorly is better than not playing at all .
Let the slings and arrows fly as I suspect that they will since I have no issue with defending my position on this matter .
OP , there is no question that needs to be asked because neither lefty or righty are wrong . The argument continues because of the right handed people , not us lefties . We are not trying to change anyone . We just would prefer to never have to hear this old , archaic and bigoted concept ever again .