What to learn after identifying the notes on the fretboard

[JohnnyMarrKing]

Hey guys,

For a little while I have been dipping in and out learning the seven natural notes of the guitar fretboard...I know them off-by-heart, from the key of C. (On every string, too. Just to give you an understanding of what I mean,etc.)

Yet, If I want to learn the CAGED System...should I start practicing scales from each notes...EXAMPLE: Start at C, achieve the major scale...then, you know, achieve the major scale of D, then E, then F, then G, etc,etc,etc.

Any suggestions??

Kindest Regards!

- Josh.

[GB...]

I'm going the same route so I'm in for the ride...drove the family nuts learning the notes all over the board

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by JohnnyMarrKing

...If I want to learn the CAGED System...should I start practicing scales from each notes...

Hi Josh

First of all, Hello and Welcome to the forum! Glad you finally spoke up after apparently observing from the sidelines for a year!

My suggestion is if you want to learn the CAGED system, pay for the privilege to study it. There are dozens of DVDs and books on Amazon dot com which will walk you through a plan to understand it and employ (deploy) it in your playing.

[mr. beaumont]

CAGED is a visualization method that works for chord shapes, arpeggios, and scales. It's absolutely worth getting some good instructional material on it.

It's not a "method," as many think. Just a visualization tool.

It'd be good to know what your playing goals are. Amassing information without application is usually a recipe for forgetting.

[Howard Klepper]

CAGED starts with the commonly used open chords on the guitar, and makes that a basis for movable forms of chords and scales that can be used in all keys and all parts of the fretboard. It teaches playing music by using patterns that are unique to the guitar, and from the outset favors the "sharp" keys (those written with sharps in the key signature rather than flats, which are the keys more natural to the guitar's open strings). Those keys are heavily favored in folk, country, and a lot of rock. You go from there to being able to play the flat keys (favored in jazz and standards because they are more natural to horn and wind players) by moving the patterns.

I think CAGED is conceptually limited (although it will take you a long way). It's basis is playing guitar music, rather than playing music on the guitar. If you want to play all kinds of music in all keys with a concept that connects to the way players of other instruments think, I'd recommend the William Leavitt system, 3 books in one volume.

[JohnnyMarrKing]

Hey guys, thanks a bunch for all your kind responses.

I have also learnt the way the notes sound, which I believe helps quite a bit, too. So, I've been testing myself...you know, not looking and going through the individual notes...One by one. That method is still not ingrained, yet, looking down at the fretboard and playing every note most certainly is.

I'm thinking of starting at the notes I know how to play and begin going through some scale progressions. Starting on the Major scale.

That William Leavitt system sounds great, too. Thank you for mentioning that, Howard Klepper.

I'll let you all know how my progress continues!

Kindest Regards!

- Josh

[pf400]

I posted a very similar request over on the General Discussion page and got alot of responses that might help. If you do an advanced search and search my postings under "pf400" it will come up.

[Mellow_D]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

CAGED is a visualization method that works for chord shapes, arpeggios, and scales. It's absolutely worth getting some good instructional material on it.

It's not a "method," as many think. Just a visualization tool.

It'd be good to know what your playing goals are. Amassing information without application is usually a recipe for forgetting.

Is there any reason the CAGED system is always done with the Major Scale? THe box patterns are always done to show the 5 kinds (shapes) of major chords, to always show the 5 patterns of the major scale.

Is there a reason it's not done with minor scales? (Or maybe it is, it's just I never noticed because it's hard enough learning the entire fretboard with just the major scale.)

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Mellow_D

Is there any reason the CAGED system is always done with the Major Scale? THe box patterns are always done to show the 5 kinds (shapes) of major chords, to always show the 5 patterns of the major scale.

Is there a reason it's not done with minor scales? (Or maybe it is, it's just I never noticed because it's hard enough learning the entire fretboard with just the major scale.)

The reason is that the five major chord shapes (C A G E D) all overlap as they run up the neck (in the C-A-G-E-D order), produding a whole-fretboard pattern for any major chord arpeggio.
All 12 major chord arps have the same 5 linked patterns, they just start on different shapes - and the CAGED order loops back to C.

Eg, here's how it works for a C major chord:

C chords
  0   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10  11  12  13  14  15
|-3-|---|---|-5-|---|---|---|---|-R-|---|---|---|-3-|---|---|-5-|
|---|-R-|---|---|---|-3-|---|---|-5-|---|---|---|---|-R-|---|---|
|-5-|---|---|---|---|-R-|---|---|---|-3-|---|---|-5-|---|---|---|
|---|---|-3-|---|---|-5-|---|---|---|---|-R-|---|---|---|-3-|---|
|---|---|---|-R-|---|---|---|-3-|---|---|-5-|---|---|---|---|-R-|
|-3-|---|---|-5-|---|---|---|---|-R-|---|---|---|-3-|---|---|-5-|
 \_____C_____/ \__A__/ \____G____/ \__E__/ \___D_____/\___C____/

Every shape produces a C chord sound. (R=C, 3=E, 5=G)

For F shapes (eg), you'd start with a barre "E" form on fret 1, followed by a "D" form on fret 3, "C" form on fret 5, etc.

There are only 3 open position minor chords (Em Am Dm), so there are gaps as you run up the neck for where Gm and Cm would be. (We normally play Gm and Cm with barre forms of Em or Am shapes.)
Of course, the arpeggio patterns still exist in the gaps, but don't make easily recognisable chord shapes.

Here's the arpeggio for a Cm chord, showing where the barre (or movable) forms of the open shapes fall:

  0   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10  11  12  13  14  14
|---|---|---|-5-|---|---|---|---|-R-|---|---|m3-|---|---|---|-5-|
|---|-R-|---|---|m3-|---|---|---|-5-|---|---|---|---|-R-|---|---|
|-5-|---|---|---|---|-R-|---|---|m3-|---|---|---|-5-|---|---|---|
|---|m3-|---|---|---|-5-|---|---|---|---|-R-|---|---|m3-|---|---|
|---|---|---|-R-|---|---|m3-|---|---|---|-5-|---|---|---|---|-R-|
|---|---|---|-5-|---|---|---|---|-R-|---|---|m3-|---|---|---|-5-|
              \__Am___/           \___Em__/\___Dm_____/

The Rs and 5s are the same as for C major, of course; m3=Eb.

[haplo]

I second Howard's suggestion. Bill Leavitt's approach is more likely to lead you to sounding like a musician using a guitar to play music, as opposed to sounding like "just a guitarist". Lots of good examples of his chord etudes on the u-tube if you want a sample.

[haplo]

for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TZPJqdXyDQ

[Smilemaker]

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss...rd%2Caps%2C315

This is a good one.

[rick-slo]

You are ready to play the melody to "Joy To The World".

For most people I would say learn songs, songs, songs. Pick up picking patterns, chords shapes, and various technical skills that way. Pick up theory and memorizing systems (which you may or may not use much) along the way.

[BluesBelly]

Originally Posted by Mellow_D

Is there any reason the CAGED system is always done with the Major Scale? THe box patterns are always done to show the 5 kinds (shapes) of major chords, to always show the 5 patterns of the major scale.

Is there a reason it's not done with minor scales? (Or maybe it is, it's just I never noticed because it's hard enough learning the entire fretboard with just the major scale.)

The relative minor of the G Major scale is E minor. Three frets down (toward the nut). So by learning the Major scale you are in effect learning the minor. As an example play notes from the G Major pentatonic scale then play a G chord. You are G Major. Play notes from the G Major scale then play an E chord and you are playing the E minor scale in the key of E.
Conversely playing the E minor pentatonic and blues scale over an E chord gives an E minor sound but playing the same scale over a G chord gives a G major sound.
I know JonPR can carify this and make more sense of this than I am able to but the crux of the matter is: once the major scale is learned the relative minor is basically the same notes but played over the chord three steps down.

Blues

[trion12]

Originally Posted by JohnnyMarrKing

Hey guys,

If I want to learn the CAGED System...should I start practicing scales from each notes...EXAMPLE: Start at C, achieve the major scale...then, you know, achieve the major scale of D, then E, then F, then G, etc,etc,etc.

Any suggestions??

Why do you want to learn the CAGED system? Why that system and why not another system?

Rather than deciding to learn a system, why not decide on what kind of music you want to be able to play and your goals as to the level of expertise you wish to attain and then find the system to help you that matches those desires?

Originally Posted by Howard Klepper

CAGED If you want to play all kinds of music in all keys with a concept that connects to the way players of other instruments think, I'd recommend the William Leavitt system, 3 books in one volume.

+1

Again your goals are important to help you decide if this is a good system for you. If you want to be a musician who plays guitar, as opposed to a guitarist this is a good system. It would be most helpful to undertake it with a teacher.

Aaron