Choosing how to die

[flaggerphil]

I've been in chronic pain for almost 37 years. When it comes time to die I want to make it as pain free as possible.

[Nyghthawk]

Originally Posted by Otterhound

I like to think that I can live in a place that values life above everything . There will always be other places to go if you choose to commit suicide .
Pain is often a part of living , so it stands to me that pain may also be a part of dying .

If we (in the USA) valued "life above everything" we would feed the hungry, house the homeless, and treat the sick and injured whether they had money or not. IMHO we value "cash above everything."

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by Nyghthawk

If we (in the USA) valued "life above everything" we would feed the hungry, house the homeless, and treat the sick and injured whether they had money or not. IMHO we value "cash above everything."

Some homeless refuse to stay in existing shelters or because they can't abide by the rules, are disallowed access. No one can be refused needed medical attention in this country based on their inability to pay, that's the law. Food Banks, government programs, most Churches and a multitude of other organizations provide tons of food for the needy.
There are still needs but c'mon be fair, it's not as if we are doing nothing. I think the generosity exhibited in this country is fairly significant.

[flaggerphil]

I think we're crossing a line, here...

[sled]

If someone wants to die, really, how hard is it..... I don't think we need laws, we need common sense.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by AndreF

You're fully entitled to your beliefs.
For the record: I'm not in favor either of any legislative action on the matter, pro or con. That would be a huge mistake.
It should be a private matter, left entirely up to individuals, without fear of any punitive repercussions. Families suffer enough as it is in these situations.

I have seen more than a handful of close family and friends die of cancer, been right at the bedside.
Once they are sent home with no further treatments they are on so much morphine, they never regain cosciousness at least as we know it.They die of starvation and all their organs shutting down.
I suspect this to be a form of Euthanasia.

[amyFB]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

I have seen more than a handful of close family and friends die of cancer, been right at the bedside.
Once they are sent home with no further treatments they are on so much morphine, they never regain cosciousness at least as we know it.They die of starvation and all their organs shutting down.
I suspect this to be a form of Euthanasia.

I think this points to the value of making a medical directive (or whatever it is called) while you are still capable of making the decisions.

Key is picking an executor or assigning Power of Attorney to someone in whom you have confidence that they'll honor your wishes no matter what.

I know two people who have consciously made the choice for the final sleep cocktail. Horrible as it is to contemplate or watch, starvation and organ shut down is inevitable, although I think you don't have to be sick for that to happen.

I'm not sure , in the story from rokdog, that there is a better alternative to a terminal illness. If the patient is unable to eat, and can not be treated to recover, and bodily functions are shutting down, seems like an unconcious morphine drip is the nicest thing that could happen.

[Nyghthawk]

[QUOTE=rokdog49;5352231]No one can be refused needed medical attention in this country based on their inability to pay, that's the law.[QUOTE]

I had a close friend that was diagnosed with 3 blocked arteries. He had no insurance. Methodist Hospital in Houston said they would not do the bypass operation without $100K in cash up front. He did not have it. They sent him home. He died.

I call BS on your statement.

[posternutbag]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

Some homeless refuse to stay in existing shelters or because they can't abide by the rules, are disallowed access. No one can be refused needed medical attention in this country based on their inability to pay, that's the law. Food Banks, government programs, most Churches and a multitude of other organizations provide tons of food for the needy.
There are still needs but c'mon be fair, it's not as if we are doing nothing. I think the generosity exhibited in this country is fairly significant.

I have met a lot of people in my life who have never seen this "generosity" you speak of.

The reason we can't get away from religion or politics is because this subject is ultimately about control, and exercising it over people.

I fundamentally believe that freedom is the right of every sentient being. And the most fundamental freedom we can have is how we chose to leave the mortal coil. We live in a supposedly free society, yet this is one freedom still legally denied. That must change. How much pain I live with is not Otterhound's decision to make, and Rokdog's beliefs have nothing to do with me. AndreF wants it left up to individuals, only its not. If you are not for laws protecting assisted suicide and dignified death, then your apathy is by default support for the status quo, and the status quo strips me of my right to die in a manner I deem fit.

[Acousticado]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

I have seen more than a handful of close family and friends die of cancer, been right at the bedside.
Once they are sent home with no further treatments they are on so much morphine, they never regain cosciousness at least as we know it.They die of starvation and all their organs shutting down.
I suspect this to be a form of Euthanasia.

What you say and have observed is likely true in many cases, but it wasn't like that for my Mom, and doesn't have to be quite like that for everyone. Further to my earlier post, my Mom had been suffering with kidney cancer (and secondary, unrelated lung cancer...never a smoker) and once treatment options had been exhausted, she was sent home for the last three months of her life with an auto pain pump connected to her to administer hydromorphone. Even with that, especially after a new related mass emerged, we (family) had to provide manual additional doses when she needed it. In addition to a number of other meds, she was also on a particular anti-nausea steroid that also helped with appetite, and boy did it. Her appetite was voracious. Us preparing meals for her that she loved gave her joy. Through this entire time, only in the last two days did she lose consciousness and not eat. This was after she 'knew' it was time, and asked family to gather where she said her emotional goodbyes. The next day, we actually observed in her that the cancer had taken over completely, so the meds were increased where she was sedated until she passed, again, only two days later.

So, it can be a matter of how effectively meds are administers to keep a patient both (relatively) free of pain, alert, and eating.

[amyFB]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

Some homeless refuse to stay in existing shelters or because they can't abide by the rules, are disallowed access. No one can be refused needed medical attention in this country based on their inability to pay, that's the law. Food Banks, government programs, most Churches and a multitude of other organizations provide tons of food for the needy.
There are still needs but c'mon be fair, it's not as if we are doing nothing. I think the generosity exhibited in this country is fairly significant.

I wish I had evidence to agree that the problem is not as big as you believe.

In part, yes I agree that there are people in need who choose to reject available resources.

No one can be refused medical care because they cannot pay?

Maybe that is technically true, but, I have read of situations running for months and years of applications, denials and appeals for assistance that , by the time it was approved, the patient had been dead for two weeks.

Do our experiences differ because of the demographics of where we live? could be! maybe our exposure to needy people doesn't let us fully grasp the scope of the issue.

Me, I've heard read and seen enough to believe that cash is king, everyone else can get in line.

[rokdog49]

Ok,
I guess I'm wrong and everyone else is right. As usual.
Anyone can find isolated cases against any broad-based scenario and shoot a hole in it. I'm sorry someone was refused something, but perhaps there's more to the story, I wasn't there. Was anything done after the fact of the refusal to explore other avenues? If there was an immediate threat to life, perhaps an attorney could have helped.
I just won't accept that help isn't out there carte' blanche' because in my experience I know better.Our systems are not perfect, but to say things aren't being done and we're a selfish nation...that's just not true.

[amyFB]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

Ok,
I guess I'm wrong and everyone else is right. As usual.
Anyone can find isolated cases against any broad-based scenario and shoot a hole in it.
I just won't accept that help isn't out there carte' blanche' because in my experience I know better. No system is perfect, but to say things aren't being done and we're a selfish nation...that's BS.

Now come on rokdog - it isn't black and white, and you don't need to be upset because we can't make it so.

no one is fully right and no one is fully wrong. we're here discussing the different views that exist among us.

Is there really a law like you mentioned? If there is, let's have a chance to look at the language of it, instead of taking the words you use to describe your understanding of it. What if in your reading of it, you skipped a sentence that changed the entire meaning as you knew it?

Let us tell you our stories and we'll listen to yours. from both sides we can learn more about the way things work and , maybe, (gasp) find a shining star somewhere in the conversation.

[Nyghthawk]

18% of US children live in food insecure households.

34% of the US homeless are families.

•The Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA) is a federal law that requires anyone coming to an emergency department to be stabilized and treated, regardless of their insurance status or ability to pay, but since its enactment in 1986 has remained an unfunded mandate.

This is the ONLY requirement to treat without insurance. To be stabilized in the ER. You can then be discharged by the hospital regardless of your continued need for treatment. Or the underlying illness.

Google is your friend. We are not a selfish nation, just ill informed about the "least of these" among us.

[Hoyt]

I support euthanasia and believe it should be a person's right.

When the pain, degradation of the quality of life, etc., get to the point where a reasonable person would choose to die with dignity, save their family the anguish of seeing them suffer, perhaps even help the family financially in avoiding fruitless medical expense that only prolongs the suffering, etc., it is time for a person to be able to choose a medication that ends life peacefully. In fact, when a person is told they have cancer or something that is likely to be terminal, they should be given the opportunity to take a drug and hold onto it until they decide whether to use it.

No one has a right to prevent that, and one shouldn't have to search for a physician who is willing to assist.

Dr. Kevorkian is a hero of mine.