ES2 System electronic hum vs ES1??? Advice needed

[vindibona1]

Yes, I got the 814ce Deluxe I was asking about last week. So it came and as I'm putting it through it's paces I plugged it in and noticed that it had a light humming noise, especially when I kicked up the volume. When I plugged in my 614 with the ES1 system there was no hum or noise at all.

It might be important to note that the ES2 in the detent position is louder than the same with the ES1 and probably has more volume range. But still, there was enough hum on the ES2 to make me wonder if it is a defect in a new guitar or something inherent in the system? Does the ES2 possibly have a gain adjustment?

[Moocheng]

It might be a fault, I have the ES2 in two guitars neither of the hum at full volume, there is a barely perceptible hiss thats all

[RP]

Try plugging your amp into an outlet without any other plug-ins if that is not the case...

[jonfields45]

Assuming the hum originates with the guitar, Taylor uses Molex (and other) connectors in good quantity in their typical wiring harnesses. You won't find this in the typical electric guitar, for example. It is possible one of those connector's ground lead has oxidized slightly. If you feel up to it, take apart each connector one at a time, and dab both sides with a bit of DeOxit on a Q-tip. The electrical supply section of a Home Depot will have industrial sized spray cans of brand X contact cleaner for less (don't spray that stuff into pots, for pots it is worth getting the DeOxit for non metal contacts - fader cleaner). If this is the problem, the most likely root causes are the jack you plugged your guitar chord into (most abuse) or where the pickup elements plug into the preamp circuit board (most signal gain).

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by vindibona1

Yes, I got the 814ce Deluxe I was asking about last week. So it came and as I'm putting it through it's paces I plugged it in and noticed that it had a light humming noise, especially when I kicked up the volume. When I plugged in my 614 with the ES1 system there was no hum or noise at all.

It might be important to note that the ES2 in the detent position is louder than the same with the ES1 and probably has more volume range. But still, there was enough hum on the ES2 to make me wonder if it is a defect in a new guitar or something inherent in the system? Does the ES2 possibly have a gain adjustment?

Into What Device Were You Plugging-in Your New Taylor 814ce DLX ES2? Likely, your Taylor's ES2 is okay, and here's why:

I don't hear much, if any, humming when plugging my ES2-equipped Taylors into my Line 6 L2t Active Speaker which is plugged in to a grounded outlet strip. However, when recently training my Tonedexter (powered with its wall-wart plugged in to a grounded electrical strip) with my 2015 618e ES2, I noticed a humming tone through my ToneDexter-connected headphones. Per ToneDexter instructions, if I plugged-in the ToneDexter via its output jack, to another device (PreSonus Studio 192 audio interface powered with its wall-wart which was plugged in to a grounded electrical strip), the humming was greatly reduced. This residual humming didn't seem to negatively affect the 618e's generated Tonedexter WaveMap and maybe the humming only is a product of the headphone preamplifier in the Tonedexter and isn't transferred to the WaveMap generation circuitry? Of note: When training the ToneDexter with my Martin HD-28 with Trance Audio Amulet M-VT, there was no humming in my ToneDexter-connected headphones even when the ToneDexter wasn't plugged in to another device. I will try my other ES2 Taylors to hear if the humming is a characteristic of the ES2 or just a connectivity-related matter depending on what the ES2 is plugged in to.

[vindibona1]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

Assuming the hum originates with the guitar, Taylor uses Molex (and other) connectors in good quantity in their typical wiring harnesses. You won't find this in the typical electric guitar, for example. It is possible one of those connector's ground lead has oxidized slightly.

Oxidation? Perhaps but I think unlikely as the guitar's manufacture date was June 2nd of this year which makes it all of 2 months old!

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Into What Device Were You Plugging-in Your New Taylor 814ce DLX ES2? Likely, your Taylor's ES2 is okay, and here's why:

I don't hear much, if any, humming when plugging my ES2-equipped Taylors into my Line 6 L2t Active Speaker which is plugged in to a grounded outlet strip. However, when recently training my Tonedexter (powered with its wall-wart plugged in to a grounded electrical strip) with my 2015 618e ES2, I noticed a humming tone through my ToneDexter-connected headphones. Per ToneDexter instructions, if I plugged-in the ToneDexter via its output jack, to another device (PreSonus Studio 192 audio interface powered with its wall-wart which was plugged in to a grounded electrical strip), the humming was greatly reduced. This residual humming didn't seem to negatively affect the 618e's generated Tonedexter WaveMap and maybe the humming only is a product of the headphone preamplifier in the Tonedexter and isn't transferred to the WaveMap generation circuitry? Of note: When training the ToneDexter with my Martin HD-28 with Trance Audio Amulet M-VT, there was no humming in my ToneDexter-connected headphones even when the ToneDexter wasn't plugged in to another device. I will try my other ES2 Taylors to hear if the humming is a characteristic of the ES2 or just a connectivity-related matter depending on what the ES2 is plugged in to.

Thanks for you reply. For acoustic the only amp I have that is remotely close to a real acoustic amp is a Roland Cube 40XL. While it has an acoustic modeling setting I just use the JC Clean mode and use the BMT knobs for EQ (though I do own an EQ pedal.

I made a quick recording demonstrating the difference between the ES1 and ES2 System. What do you think?



I haven't registered it with Taylor yet as I'm still within my 30 day return period with the store, but should I decide to keep it (98% sure I will) I'm fortunate to have a Taylor certified technician 10 minutes from home who will get it taken care of under warranty. Shouldn't be too hard to replace any of the components should they be defective.

[ii Cybershot ii]

I'll compare my ES1 and ES2 later today, but I honestly think this might be normal. To me, my ES2 sounds like a really hot mic that isn't close enough to the guitar.

On a side note, with both volumes at full, which ES system is louder for you?

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by ii Cybershot ii

I'll compare my ES1 and ES2 later today, but I honestly think this might be normal. To me, my ES2 sounds like a really hot mic that isn't close enough to the guitar.

On a side note, with both volumes at full, which ES system is louder for you?

I no longer have any ES1 systems to use as a comparison but recalling from memory: When using a 1/4-inch instrument cord, the ES2 is much louder compared to the ES1. This was instantly noticeable when first plugging-in my now gone ES2-equipped 2013 Taylor 516e FLTD by noting the position of the Gain Control on any device into which the ES2 was plugged-in. Using a balanced XLR cord with the ES1 systems narrowed the loudness gap between the two systems.

[vindibona1]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

Assuming the hum originates with the guitar, Taylor uses Molex (and other) connectors in good quantity in their typical wiring harnesses. You won't find this in the typical electric guitar, for example. It is possible one of those connector's ground lead has oxidized slightly. If you feel up to it, take apart each connector one at a time, and dab both sides with a bit of DeOxit on a Q-tip. The electrical supply section of a Home Depot will have industrial sized spray cans of brand X contact cleaner for less (don't spray that stuff into pots, for pots it is worth getting the DeOxit for non metal contacts - fader cleaner). If this is the problem, the most likely root causes are the jack you plugged your guitar chord into (most abuse) or where the pickup elements plug into the preamp circuit board (most signal gain).

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

I no longer have any ES1 systems to use as a comparison but recalling from memory: When using a 1/4-inch instrument cord, the ES2 is much louder compared to the ES1. This was instantly noticeable when first plugging-in my now gone ES2-equipped 2013 Taylor 516e FLTD by noting the position of the Gain Control on any device into which the ES2 was plugged-in. Using a balanced XLR cord with the ES1 systems narrowed the loudness gap between the two systems.

Yes, the ES2 is noticeably louder than the ES1. And turning down the volume obviously minimized the noise. I'm going to take it on it's first gig on the 18th and I'll be plugged into the house system via direct box.

But to be honest, to my ear, at least through the Cube 40 the ES1 system sounds more natural. I know I have to give the ES2 a chance, but if it is an improvement from a sonic standpoint I'm not seeing it yet. Wondering if I should call Taylor on Monday morning?

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by vindibona1

Yes, the ES2 is noticeably louder than the ES1. And turning down the volume obviously minimized the noise. I'm going to take it on it's first gig on the 18th and I'll be plugged into the house system via direct box.

But to be honest, to my ear, at least through the Cube 40 the ES1 system sounds more natural. I know I have to give the ES2 a chance, but if it is an improvement from a sonic standpoint I'm not seeing it yet. Wondering if I should call Taylor on Monday morning?

To me, the ES1 systems always sounded like an electric guitar, especially when getting a bit aggressive on the the 1st and 2nd strings. I guarantee that when you get your new Taylor ES2 dialed-in, you're going to notice how much more acoustic-guitar-like it sounds and that you'll enjoy it more than the ES1 or my name ain't SpruceTop!

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by vindibona1

Oxidation? Perhaps but I think unlikely as the guitar's manufacture date was June 2nd of this year which makes it all of 2 months old!

Maybe true for the guitar but you have no idea how long the PCB sat around or how long the parts were in inventory at the PCB assembly shop. You don't know if the PCB assembler kept their parts bagged prior to using. You don't know if the PCB boards were bagged and baked before shipping to Taylor. Ditto for the cable manufacturer. For that matter you don't know if all the connectors are properly seated.

All of these procedures are common to electronic devices manufactured in the millions a month, but not generally customary for low volume where 500 DPM (defective per million) might not be noticeable, until you end up with that one bad one in 2000.

[ii Cybershot ii]

I compared my ES1 and ES2 and my ES2 definitely had some hum similar to your recording. It's only noticeable with the gain past 75% on the guitar. This would make theoretical sense because the ES2 is supposed to be hotter than the ES1... (however mine is not).

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

To me, the ES1 systems always sounded like an electric guitar, especially when getting a bit aggressive on the the 1st and 2nd strings. I guarantee that when you get your new Taylor ES2 dialed-in, you're going to notice how much more acoustic-guitar-like it sounds and that you'll enjoy it more than the ES1 or my name ain't SpruceTop!

I agree. Even with the "troubles" my ES2 might have, the actual sound of the guitar is MILES better than the ES1.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by ii Cybershot ii

I compared my ES1 and ES2 and my ES2 definitely had some hum similar to your recording. It's only noticeable with the gain past 75% on the guitar. This would make theoretical sense because the ES2 is supposed to be hotter than the ES1... (however mine is not).



I agree. Even with the "troubles" my ES2 might have, the actual sound of the guitar is MILES better than the ES1.

The ES2 hum was only evident in the headphone circuit of the ToneDexter and not in any recordings made from the ToneDexter into and through the Presonus Studio 192 Audio Interface on into the computer. Glad you like the more acoustic tone of the ES2!

[vindibona1]

I spoke to Taylor service today and they said that the ES2 in this guitar should have ZERO hum. I'm not sure what the technicalities are, but he said that my 614 had a magnetic pickup in it and the 814ceDLX does not and should not have hum. He said it was probably a grounding issue and the pickup probably needed to be replaced.

Fortunately I'm 10 minutes from a Taylor authorized tech so I'll make the trek over their later today. I'll know more after I talk to the tech.

[ii Cybershot ii]

Originally Posted by vindibona1

I spoke to Taylor service today and they said that the ES2 in this guitar should have ZERO hum. I'm not sure what the technicalities are, but he said that my 614 had a magnetic pickup in it and the 814ceDLX does not and should not have hum. He said it was probably a grounding issue and the pickup probably needed to be replaced.

Fortunately I'm 10 minutes from a Taylor authorized tech so I'll make the trek over their later today. I'll know more after I talk to the tech.

I'm curious to see what happens, let us know!