neck resets needed on classical guitars?

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by mtdmind

Is it easier to build a guitar with a Spanish heel than one with a dovetail joint ?

Makers often chose design/construction details based upon what they were taught and what set-up - tools, machinery - they have available to them. What is "easy" for one set-up may not be for another. Hence the italicized CAN be easier, in my original post.

For example, if one has CNC machinery, once programmed, a Taylor neck joint may be very easy. For someone making guitars solely with hand tools, not so much, a Spanish heel may be much easier, more accessible.

The design below has no room for a joint and, for that reason, was built with a Spanish heel. So, design can sometimes dictate certain construction details.

[bohemian]

The "Spanish Heel" is one of the reasons Fleta used a dovetail neck joint on
his guitars.. and he had a violin making background.

One of the latest "Spanish Heel" techniques is to make the "foot" a separate piece from the neck, and the neck and heel block have mortices .. the assembly is with a floating tenon. It is then theoretically possible to slice off the neck and route out the mortices .. adjust the neck and make and install new tenons.

As to well made classicals and flamencos not needing neck resests.. I have seen famous maker units that needed attention.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by bohemian

One of the latest "Spanish Heel" techniques is to make the "foot" a separate piece from the neck, and the neck and heel block have mortices .. the assembly is with a floating tenon. It is then theoretically possib;le to slice off the neck and route out the mortices .. adjust the neck and make and install new tenons.

That's a new one to me. I don't see any design/maintenance advantage to this since it still allows no adjustment after gluing and necessitates that the neck still be cut from the body in the event of a neck reset. In that respect, it is no different than a traditional one-piece Spanish heel.

Being able to finish the neck separately from the body prior to assembly has manufacturing advantages, but the use of a non-permanent connection would be more advantages than a permanent one that needs to be cut during a future adjustment. In other words, it makes sense to me that if one is going to use a two-piece construction, one of the primary advantages for doing so is the ability to disassemble the pieces when/if necessary, an advantage eliminated by using a glued-in floating tenon.

[scottishrogue]

I am relatively new to the world of classical guitars, and have come to understand many of the subtle differences of different manufacturers, such as nut width, fretboard radius (or not), different bracing patterns, different tonewood combinations, from steel-reinforced necks, to adjustable truss rods, or no truss rod required, soundboard thickness, and other design differences between a Torres, Ramirez, or Fleta blueprint, and probably many others, I get it...mostly. But why are there so many differences in neck design? From M&T, dovetail, bolt-on, thick heels, narrow heels, neck angles. Is a "Spanish foot" referring to the same thing as a Classical Heel? Is it all just cosmetic or do the differences in structural design serve any specific purpose? Is any one design better than another?

I own approximately 8 classical guitars, each one a wee bit different, from solid all wood, all laminate wood, and combinations, or a solid body chambered Gibson Chet Atkins CE, with nylon strings, but is probably not a true classical guitar, but the purpose of different neck designs escapes me.

Charles, Waddy or anyone else that knows where I can gain a greater understanding...if you can point me in the right direction, it would be greatly appreciated.

Glen

[charles Tauber]

There are two basic approaches to guitar making: the "Spanish" and the "German". Spanish methods traditionally involve building the guitar face-down on a work board. The neck has an extension on it beyond the heel into which are cut two slots to accommodate the sides. The top is laid face down on the board and the extension of the neck is glued to the inside of the top, the neck also face-down. (The end block is also glued in at the opposite end of the body.) The sides are then slid into the slots on the neck: the interior forms a "block" and the exterior the heel. The back is put on last to complete the assembly, but for the fingerboard.




The German method involves using an outside mold. The sides are bend and placed in the mold. The end block glued in place, along with linings and then top and back are glued on. Traditionally, a joint is cut in the end block to mate with a joint at the end of the neck, providing attachment of the neck to the body.



There are many hybrids and variations, but those are the two basic approaches. Why use one instead of the other? Partly tradition and partly how one was taught/learned the craft. Having done both, I haven't found one to produce a superior instrument over the other.

[paullouisf]

Does anyone know what neck Cordoba, Yamaha, La Patrie, or others less that $500, uses. I looked through the sound-hole of a Cordoba C5 and it looks completely different than any steel-string guitar I have ever seen. I forgot to look inside of the La Patrie. There were a few others at GC but I also did not look in the sound-hole of those. I can't find any Yamaha classical guitars in the area, just Cordoba and La Patrie. At under $500 it may not matter. Thanks.

[bohemian]

Hauser (I,II,III) possibly the most famous of the German classical builders, used the Spanish foot.

For a bit of an education of historical classical/flamenco builders and their techniques I would suggest getting a copy of :
" Making Master Guitars" by Roy Courtnall.

[zackl]

What if the top "raises" ? I heard that was one reason for neck resets ?

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by bohemian

Hauser (I,II,III) possibly the most famous of the German classical builders, used the Spanish foot.

Steel strings have traditionally been built using the German method and classicals the Spanish method, though there are lots of exceptions, particularly in more recent times.

[scottishrogue]

Thanks to everyone for the information. Now, I'll just have to wait for a big book sale, I guess. I checked the library, but they didn't have it. Maybe I'll request they order it for me.

Glen

[mtdmind]

Originally Posted by bohemian

One of the latest "Spanish Heel" techniques is to make the "foot" a separate piece from the neck, and the neck and heel block have mortices .. .

Is that separate "foot" just cosmetic? I can't see how it can be functional if it is a separate piece.