Dave's Bluegrass Guitar Dilemma

[martingitdave]

Cue, the foreboding music. Dun, dun, dun...

Disclaimer: This thread / question is for the Bluegrass guys and gals. And, not to be a Bluegrass snob, if there is such a thing, I'm specifically directing the question to players who are presently and actively involved with traditional Bluegrass ensembles with both banjos and mandolin players.

Question: Do you dedicate a guitar to Bluegrass gigs?

Reason for Asking: I have a few wonderful guitars that are excellent for my folk gigs. My HD28 Retro with Sitka top is perfect for all my solo stuff and the pickup system is presently without equal. However, it's just not loud enough to keep up with the banjos and mandos. Even though I've got medium PB strings, 1.5 to 2.5 mm picks, and very high action, nada. We sometimes plug in, so those times are not an issue. It's the times we share a mic, or are playing acoustically in the "barn dance" band. Yes, those still exist.

Otherwise, my Custom Shop Golden Era VTS Adi/GRW, on paper, should be a perfect match. But, the GRW is very "sweet" sounding and does not project the lows needed for a steady thumping rhythm, which is my job. That is, besides singing with a rather annoying affect at the top of my range.

Granted, bluegrass is the people's music and you should not need a fancy guitar to play it. But the banjo and mando players keep buying better and more expensive instruments. It's an arms race.

Kidding of course.

What say you?

Buy a dedicated guitar and risk my wife committing me to an asylum?

Bang harder on what I've got?

Find new banjo and Mano friends?

I'll probably cross post of UMGF too.

UPDATE:

Silly me, I had installed a set of heavy ebony bridge pins in my Adirondack topped guitar that warmed it up for solo stuff. But it choked and muffled the the guitar for heavier picking. I put the stock plastic pins back and viola it's good to go.

UPDATE 2:

Um, the pins made less difference that I estimated. I ordered a new guitar that I will use for bluegrass and acoustic ensemble work. See post #50.

[BoneDigger]

I use my D18 standard, but I don't dedicate it strictly to that. I don't think the guitar really cares what I play on it.

[Allen Shadd]

Congratulations, you have just discovered why so many bluegrass guitarists prefer a good mahogany. While it may be an absolute volume issue, I suspect it as much a tone issue. In general, the nice warm sound of rosewood gets lost in the frequencies between the other instruments. A mahogany guitar will cut through better (usually) and a good one will still have some thump to it. That isn't saying that there aren't any rosewood guitars that can't project well enough, of course there are. But you might consider trying a mahogany guitar. If you are bent on having a Martin, either the discontinued D-18GE or the newer D-18 might be a good choice. I have a good D-18GE but I find myself using my Collings Winfield mahogany model mostly.

[brencat]

I vote keep what you have Dave. Can't imagine that your new guitar won't get louder and deeper as it breaks in more. Keep beating the snot out of it!

[arwhite]

Buy one of the D28 Marquis. Don't sell what you have. It's okay. You have my permission. If your wife hasn't left you yet the likelihood this will be the last straw is fairly remote.

[00-28]

The lengths we go to justify buying another guitar. What next, a guitar that plays brighter on cloudy days?

...........Mike

[Bob from Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by 00-28

The lengths we go to justify buying another guitar. What next, a guitar that plays brighter on cloudy days?

...........Mike

Yeah, I'd probably get the Marquis and a mahogany just to cover your bases.

[Nyghthawk]

The Blueridge BR-140A would be Adi over hog, 1 3/4 nut, and long scale. It would also be less than 8 Franklins and is far less likely to cause undue stress in the family. you could just dedicate it to bluegrass.

[ChrisE]

I could summarize the OP this way.

"Dear fellow guitar forum junkies--should I buy another guitar?"

Is there really any doubt as to what the answer will be?

[L20A]

If you are just looking for a reason to purchase another guitar, just do it.
If you really want a guitar for playing Bluegrass music, you already have two that will do nicely.

Only you can decide what you really want to do.

PS,
If you buy another guitar, chances are that you will still be on the lookout for the Holy Grail that really doesn't exist.

[Goat Mick]

My experience has been that the Rosewood guitars cut through and punch better than the Mahogany guitars. It may just be the build design on the guitars you have that are causing them to be quieter. I know Collings guitars tend to be a bit louder as do some Santa Cruz and Bourgeois models. Go try the 28's available locally and take along your current loudest guitar to compare. Never hurts having another one in the house.

[posternutbag]

It is an arms race. I play with a banjo player who keeps upgrading pre war flathead banjos. One of the reasons I love my Bourgeois so much is that it has both the volume and projection needed to keep up.

My HD28 sounded great and was solid when playing rhythm (Playing just chords), but the scooped tone meant that the volume fell away during solos and, more importantly, the volume fell away on bass runs when I would capo up in B, especially if the banjo is rolling hard and the mandolin is doing anything other than just staying on the 2 and 4.

The Bourgeois has as much bottom end as the Martin, but it also has really strong mid range punch for leads and bass runs further up the neck.

I know you are a Martin guy, not trying to convert you, and you have probably forgotten more bluegrass guitar than I could ever learn, but I also play bluegrass mandolin, and in mandolin circles we talk a lot about punch. The best bluegrass mandolins, IMO, are not mandolins like Ellis mandolins with smooth creamy woody tone, but one with a brighter, focused, punchier tone, what bluegrass mandolin players call, unimaginatively, "grassy."

It is about volume, but it is also about sonic space in the mix. A bluegrass group is not like a string quartet, where every instrument is designed for a specific range, bluegrass ensembles step on each other quite a bit. It gets especially bad if you are all playing around one condenser. Our solution in one band was a lineup of 4 Shure 57and 58 mics. When we each have our own instrument mic, it really helps out the guitars and even the mandolin.

So to me, there are two solutions. Either find a guitar that has punch or optimize sound reinforcement, or both. The best bluegrass guitar may not be the one that sounds best to you when playing by yourself.

[llew]

Maybe try the new (2017) D-28? It might give you what you're looking for with less $ outlay? The new Pre*War Guitar Co. is building great "Martin Style" dreads in both D(18) and HD(28). Plenty of punch and vintage tone to match! My Martin's can keep up and I'm a Martin guy.

[Bob from Brooklyn]

When you watch other bluegrass bands where the guitarist is not being drowned out, what are they using?

Have people told you that you weren't being heard or just your own perception?

[BFD]

Probably can't help answer the which Martin question. When I went looking for a bluegrass dread, preferably Martin (to which I had no previous attachment), I ended up liking a used Collings D2HA best; works great in our banjo/fiddle/guitar combo. It's good also in bigger jams. I lean more toward a Gibson Songwriter tone for solo singing type stuff, tho the Collings is more fun to play.