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  #16  
Old 09-25-2013, 05:12 PM
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Ironically, there is one period in history where Gibson used the sunburst to cover what may have been considered poor wood. During WW2, when materials became scarce because of the war effort, Gibson (in Kalamazoo at the time) made a lot of guitars with three or four piece tops, and used the sunburst to cover the "flaws". As a further irony, a lot of people that own or have heard these "Banner Gibsons" claim that they have the best tone and workmanship of any Gibson acoustic from any era.

I don't believe there is any other time in Gibby history when the sunburst was used to cover flaws, but the Banner Gibson era is notable.
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  #17  
Old 09-25-2013, 05:39 PM
dovetail dovetail is offline
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Originally Posted by Guitarwonda View Post
Hi I've always liked the look of a nice Sunburst top acoustic. My friend asked me why would a luthier cover up a tightly grained perfect piece of wood with a sunburst paint job? He said Luthiers want to show off a nice piece of Sitka, adirondack or bearclaw, not cover it with paint, possibly damping it's sound potential. Is this a way for guitar company's to maximize profits by up charging for bursts using lower grade woods? Any insight or knowledge would be appreciated on this topic.
Bearclaw is not a type of Spruce , the Bearclaw marks are FLAWS !!!
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  #18  
Old 09-25-2013, 06:10 PM
Irish Dave Irish Dave is offline
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Quote:
...some people might actually prefer the look of a sunburst finish...
Uhh, that would include me. I have a couple of non-burst guitars among the others but for my taste NOTHING beats the look of a well done sunburst.
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  #19  
Old 09-25-2013, 06:10 PM
drive-south drive-south is offline
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Most wood has flaws. It is after all natural organic matter. Some flaws are desirable, like bear claw.
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  #20  
Old 09-25-2013, 06:55 PM
email4eric email4eric is offline
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I cannot speak to whether or not bursts ever have been used intentionally to mask cosmetic flaws as the primary purpose, but I absolutely believe that questionable looking tops get placed aside for the burst line while especially good looking tops go to the natural finish line. That only makes sense. I seriously doubt it's done randomly.
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  #21  
Old 09-25-2013, 08:28 PM
35fingerpicker 35fingerpicker is offline
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In 2007, I bought an NOS D-35 built in early 2005. I hadn't planned on bringing home a D-35 (and I had previously owned a '73 and a 2000 D-35) but this was the best sounding new one I'd ever experienced. It had the ugliest asymmetrical bear claw top I'd ever seen on a Standard Series Martin, which is probably why it hung on the wall for a couple of years. Flash forward to 2010. The end pin jack had come loose so I masked it off so as not to scratch the finish, and then tightened it back up. When I pulled off the tape, the finish came with it. I realized that it had been finished with the bad batch of lacquer that Martin encountered in '04-'05. I went through the whole ship-it-in-and-we'll-evaluated-it procedure, knowing full well that I would be getting a factory refinish under the warranty. When I spoke to them on the phone, I asked "Since you take it down to the bare wood, could you ad a Vintage Sunburst when you put the new finish on and, if so, what would it cost?" They got both answers right so I've had a beautiful Vintage Burst D-35 since then. My concern about a refinish changing the tone was, in my case, unfounded; it still sounded amazing with no discernible difference and now it continues to improve.
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  #22  
Old 09-25-2013, 08:38 PM
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Gibson most certainly covered cosmetically imperfect tops with bursts or other stains, going waaaay back to the 1920's. In fact on F-model mandolins, a dark stain is used on the edge of the top near the scroll to mask the side-to-top seam. Likewise with other areas of the instruments, the philosophy was "cover up what doesn't look good." Of course, the wood doesn't sound any worse, necessarily, or have any less strength. It's just not as pretty as the wood set aside for natural finishes.

In restaurants, as the meat gets a bit old, it's set aside for someone who orders their meal well-done. It isn't spoiled, by any means, but might just be slightly unsatisfactory if served rare; well done, it's fine. Woods get similar treatment, at least in some cases.

Now, not every builder uses cosmetically imperfect wood for their sunburst instruments. Some intentionally make their bursts transparent to show off the wood. But other, robably mostly larger factories, definitely will hide cosmetic imperfections on an otherwise good top by giving it a blast of pigment.
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  #23  
Old 09-25-2013, 09:02 PM
riverrummed riverrummed is offline
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I own three sunburst guitars and two natural finished. I love bursts. My understanding is that Gibson charged more for the natural finished LG-3's than they did for sunburst LG-2's and everything else about them was the same (if there is such a thing as a generalization when it comes to Gibsons). They put the burst on to cover up cosmetic imperfections they thought would affect the saleablility of the product. Nowadays it's reversed in a lot of cases; one would be charged more for a burst by some luthiers. I don't think of bearclaw or other "irregularities" in wood to be imperfections because I don't think of natural things in that way. A mountain is perfectly shaped in all its imperfections as opposed, say, to the Great Pyramids. I think it gives the wood its own individuality when there is bearclaw or swirls in the grain. I know this, if either of my Adirondack topped Eastmans were stolen I could identify them immediately just by looking at the grain irregularities in their tops. But, ultimately, it IS about the tone, right?
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  #24  
Old 09-25-2013, 09:51 PM
email4eric email4eric is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35fingerpicker View Post
In 2007, I bought an NOS D-35 built in early 2005. I hadn't planned on bringing home a D-35 (and I had previously owned a '73 and a 2000 D-35) but this was the best sounding new one I'd ever experienced. It had the ugliest asymmetrical bear claw top I'd ever seen on a Standard Series Martin, which is probably why it hung on the wall for a couple of years. Flash forward to 2010. The end pin jack had come loose so I masked it off so as not to scratch the finish, and then tightened it back up. When I pulled off the tape, the finish came with it. I realized that it had been finished with the bad batch of lacquer that Martin encountered in '04-'05. I went through the whole ship-it-in-and-we'll-evaluated-it procedure, knowing full well that I would be getting a factory refinish under the warranty. When I spoke to them on the phone, I asked "Since you take it down to the bare wood, could you ad a Vintage Sunburst when you put the new finish on and, if so, what would it cost?" They got both answers right so I've had a beautiful Vintage Burst D-35 since then. My concern about a refinish changing the tone was, in my case, unfounded; it still sounded amazing with no discernible difference and now it continues to improve.
Great story, Fingerpicker! Thanks!
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  #25  
Old 09-25-2013, 10:54 PM
flaggerphil flaggerphil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Patrick View Post
.....for the record...sunburst finishes are not "painted" on...usually a stain is added to the lacquer and is applied no thicker than a clear lacquer finish....some stain finishes are applied with an evaporating medium like alcohol prior to the application of lacquer.....many sunburst finishes do allow a lot of the natural figure of the wood to show through....
Yup..........
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  #26  
Old 09-25-2013, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dovetail View Post
Bearclaw is not a type of Spruce , the Bearclaw marks are FLAWS !!!
Not to everyone.

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  #27  
Old 09-25-2013, 11:11 PM
walrus walrus is offline
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Looks like this red spruce top has dark compression grain which made it a good candidate for this amber burst finish. It also shows medullary rays which is a sign of a well quartered quality top but unusual for Adirondack. Great sounding guitar.

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  #28  
Old 09-26-2013, 04:53 AM
dovetail dovetail is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flaggerphil View Post
Not to everyone.

yes it does look good IMO as well but it is a Flaw.
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  #29  
Old 09-26-2013, 07:15 AM
drock2k1 drock2k1 is offline
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I was told that this is where the vintage sunburst came from. Taylor had some engelmann wood that was great tonewood but had visual flaws. They put them on the 700s and used a darker burst finished. It apparently was also the end of their engelmann which is a shame cuz that stuff sounds great.
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  #30  
Old 09-26-2013, 08:07 AM
Tom West Tom West is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
Hi Gw...

Have you considered that if the wood is only cosmetically flawed and is acoustically sound it might be preferable to use it for burst or shaded tops?


Dead on, it helps to make maximum use of a somewhat limited product. (Guitar soundboards)
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