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  #16  
Old 11-05-2017, 05:27 PM
ChrisN ChrisN is offline
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Originally Posted by jseth View Post
Chris;

Earlier this year, I replaced the newer black Schallers on my old Marc Angus acoustic; those Schallers had so much slop in the gears that they were an absolute PITA! And I had bought them because the guitar originally came with Schallers (built in 1979); I only got the black ones because I wanted to change the look of the guitar to accompany the new fret board I had installed...

Anyway (sorry for the digression!), my local tech had a set of these tuners called Ratio tuners... I read up on them, liked what I read and the concept, so I went for them.

They are WONDERFUL machines... especially if you use various tunings, they would be a boon... I don't really use alternate tunings much, but the tuners themselves are very solid, very responsive, just great tuning machines.

They are a tad heavier than the Schallers were, but not horribly so. They come with several "templates" so you can fit them to many different hole patterns... the template gizmos look a LOT like what is surrounding the original tuners on the Conn that you pictured.

I'm fairly certain that those old tuners weren't the original ones, but it's just my best guess. Conn acoustic guitars, by the way, were NOT just crappy Martin knockoffs. They made some really good stuff, back in the day, although they were largely overlooked by most... every one I have played has been a very nice sounding and playing acoustic guitar...

Check out those Ratio tuners... but good luck with whatever you choose to use!
John,
Thanks for the input - I hadn't heard of those - they're by Graph-Tech, they do stuff I hardly understand, and, since I can barely play anything in standard tuning, I don't think I'm yet worthy of those tuners! Aaaannddd, they cost twice as much as the Grovers.

For those interested, here's the link -http://www.graphtech.com/products/brands/ratio

I learn new stuff every day, and I like it.

And I agree with you re: my Conn. It's OM size with a 15" lower bout, but it sounds/feels like a dread, to me. Amazing projection/volume, and it sounds great doing it. I understand these might have come out of the Matsumoku plant, and that they took their duties seriously. It's lightly built with a very light polyester finish, and it had developed a belly that I became concerned would lead to bracing shift/damage. I installed a JLD Bridge Doctor to bring the belly down, but that brought the already too-high action higher, so I (with the help of AGF) figured out how to remove the neck and did the reset. I left the vertical sliding dovetail joint intact and converted it to a bolt-on neck, so it's easily removed, no glue (I have a thread on this in Build and Repair). Compared to that project, this tuner thing should be easy!

In fact, I like this guitar so much that I just bought another F-11 off of ebay that should arrive this week. $103, plus the ship. Just a spare - in fact, its headstock/tuners are the chrome ones in the pics above.

Last edited by ChrisN; 11-05-2017 at 05:37 PM.
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  #17  
Old 11-23-2017, 08:46 PM
ChrisN ChrisN is offline
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Originally Posted by Brucebubs View Post
Good pictures.

Typically, open gear tuners use a 11/32" (8.75 mm) post hole in the headstock and sealed gear tuners use a larger 13/32" (10.0 mm) hole.
If the existing hole is the larger size you need to purchase a set of 'reduction' bushes for open gear tuners.
StewMac has them.... but you may be lucky and the Grovers might just fit those existing bushings?
http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_...SABEgKbTvD_BwE

And this is the link for tuner reduction bushes - available in round and hex shapes.
http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_...r_Bushing.html
The Grovers arrived and - I'm not lucky. Their 1/4" posts don't fit the old bushings, so I removed them and attempted to install the new bushings - but not to be, as the headstock hole is too big, measuring 8.82-8.9mm (give or take on each), not the 8.75.

So, I'll need a reduction bushing, but these:
http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_...r_Bushing.html are for 10mm holes, not my 8.8-8.9mm holes.

Before I do anything I'll regret (like remove irreplaceable wood), am I correct in concluding that my proper course is to ream the holes to allow entry of the conversion bushing? Seems obvious, but I've been caught in the "it seemed obvious at the time" trap, before.

Thanks
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  #18  
Old 11-23-2017, 10:57 PM
Brucebubs Brucebubs is offline
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Originally Posted by ChrisN View Post

Before I do anything I'll regret (like remove irreplaceable wood), am I correct in concluding that my proper course is to ream the holes to allow entry of the conversion bushing? Seems obvious, but I've been caught in the "it seemed obvious at the time" trap, before.

Thanks
Absolutely spot on.
Your thinking is correct.
The existing holes are too big for the 8.75mm bushings that come standard with the new Sta-Tites so you'll now need a set of conversion bushings.
You'll need to ream the holes out to 10.0 mm.... or ... I have heard of running a bead of glue around the inside of the hole near to the face of the headstock , let it dry hard , then reaming it out to 8.75 mm and using the standard bushings.

Those conversion bushings are available in 'hex-head' and 'round' finish.



I caused some controversy recently when I pointed out that some guitar makers instal the push fit bushings with the hex heads all in the exact same 'lined-up' position (like my Sta-Tite picture earlier in this thread)
Aaahh, attention to detail.
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Brucebubs

1972 - Takamine D-70
2014 - Alvarez ABT60 Baritone
2015 - Kittis RBJ-195 Jumbo
2012 - Dan Dubowski#61
2018 - Rickenbacker 4003 Fireglo
2020 - Gibson Custom Shop Historic 1957 SJ-200
2021 - Epiphone 'IBG' Hummingbird

Last edited by Brucebubs; 11-23-2017 at 11:29 PM.
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  #19  
Old 11-24-2017, 07:35 AM
ChrisN ChrisN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucebubs View Post
Absolutely spot on.
Your thinking is correct.
The existing holes are too big for the 8.75mm bushings that come standard with the new Sta-Tites so you'll now need a set of conversion bushings.
You'll need to ream the holes out to 10.0 mm.... or ... I have heard of running a bead of glue around the inside of the hole near to the face of the headstock , let it dry hard , then reaming it out to 8.75 mm and using the standard bushings.

Those conversion bushings are available in 'hex-head' and 'round' finish.



I caused some controversy recently when I pointed out that some guitar makers instal the push fit bushings with the hex heads all in the exact same 'lined-up' position (like my Sta-Tite picture earlier in this thread)
Aaahh, attention to detail.
Thanks for confirming the proper course, and for the new agonizing variable that requires a choice be made - the hex vs. round finish. "Round" will forever be properly aligned, but hex . . . . I like the hex, but will likely go with round because that's what came on the guitar originally.
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