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  #1  
Old 03-08-2017, 09:10 AM
Larry Esposito Larry Esposito is offline
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Default Gretsch 9200 Boxcar

Recently picked up my first resonator. Like it, but wondering if the National Cone is a worthwhile upgrade. Anyone have one or any opinions on any tweaks that make a difference?
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Old 03-08-2017, 11:33 AM
blue blue is offline
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Originally Posted by Larry Esposito View Post
Recently picked up my first resonator. Like it, but wondering if the National Cone is a worthwhile upgrade. Anyone have one or any opinions on any tweaks that make a difference?
If it sounds dead, start researching setups, and if you can't address it that way, a quality cone won't hurt. I would say you need at least intermediate skills to replace a cone. If you don't have those skills go slow. Take days... You mostly likely will only ruin the inexpensive biscuit, not the cone if you make a mistake. But you could ruin the cone if you are really ham-handed. If you lack confidence order a second biscuit when you order the cone (it comes with one)

I can't find it, but a decade ago there was a sound file floating around the internet where someone hit the edge of both a National, and a continental cone. The continental went "thunk" The national literally sounded like a bell, and rang for a good amount of time. I can't remember if it was 5, 10 or 15 seconds. And it doesn't really matter. What matters is that one went thunk, and the other made music...

I just googled and couldn't find it in the first page of results and quit
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Old 03-08-2017, 12:38 PM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Originally Posted by Larry Esposito View Post
Recently picked up my first resonator. Like it, but wondering if the National Cone is a worthwhile upgrade. Anyone have one or any opinions on any tweaks that make a difference?
I think Blue hit it on the head when he said first set up the instrument properly. One of the cost cutting measures taken by the mfd of cheaper resos is less setup time. And because the resonator is a mechanical amplifying device, like any machine it needs to be tweaked for optimal performance. As in, making sure the resonator cone is sitting in the sound-well properly, and that the string string slots in the are nut and saddle are cut properly, and in your case, since yours is a spider cone reso, is that the spider is set up level! Blue's advice about the biscuit here might have gotten you confused because your's doesn't have a biscuit, but a straight wooden bridge/saddle that fits in the spider assembly.

Yes the National cone is worth it as the cone is the tone generator and the voice of the intstrument. National really has it figured out!!!

check this out... http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online...tar_Setup.html
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Old 03-08-2017, 12:57 PM
blue blue is offline
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Originally Posted by rockabilly69 View Post
Blue's advice about the biscuit here might have gotten you confused because your's doesn't have a biscuit, but a straight wooden bridge/saddle that fits in the spider assembly.

Yes the National cone is worth it as the cone is the tone generator and the voice of the intstrument. National really has it figured out!!!

check this out... http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online...tar_Setup.html
yeah. I totally assumed biscuit... It's still hard for me to wrap my mind around NRP selling scheerhorn! When someone says national cone, singular, I jump to biscuits!
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Old 03-08-2017, 02:24 PM
Larry Esposito Larry Esposito is offline
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Originally Posted by rockabilly69 View Post
I think Blue hit it on the head when he said first set up the instrument properly. One of the cost cutting measures taken by the mfd of cheaper resos is less setup time. And because the resonator is a mechanical amplifying device, like any machine it needs to be tweaked for optimal performance. As in, making sure the resonator cone is sitting in the sound-well properly, and that the string string slots in the are nut and saddle are cut properly, and in your case, since yours is a spider cone reso, is that the spider is set up level! Blue's advice about the biscuit here might have gotten you confused because your's doesn't have a biscuit, but a straight wooden bridge/saddle that fits in the spider assembly.

Yes the National cone is worth it as the cone is the tone generator and the voice of the intstrument. National really has it figured out!!!

check this out... http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online...tar_Setup.html
Thanks guys.

Not a whole lot of info on resonator setup and such on the internet...not like there is for guitars. I have run across the spider bridge flatting, thanks for the link! I feel pretty conformable with nut/saddle and bridge adjustment, never seen the inside of a reso though! The biscuit line did throw me for a second

While I have your ears, if I can pick your brains a little:
  • National Cone: I could have sworn I found these for sale before, but I only seem to be able to find Biscuit bridge ones for sale at nationalguitars and elderly instruments. Any place sell a spider?
  • Are these all pretty standard, as in size. 9.5 inches?
  • I've seen people reference the "Hot Rod" cones. Are these made by someone other than national, and where to purchase?
  • I did find stew-mac selling Replogle Resonator Cone - any good?
  • Found resophonicoutfitters selling the beard legend cone. Is that comparable? The bridge on the Boxcar is ebony/maple, so I think I'm OK there.

One last, "loaded" question. barring me coming into a windfall of $, what other makes in the less than 1K price range make good biscuit resonators? Is there a big enough difference in sound compared to the spider?

Thanks for all your help!


Larry
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Old 03-08-2017, 03:21 PM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Here ya go....


National Cone: I could have sworn I found these for sale before, but I only seem to be able to find Biscuit bridge ones for sale at nationalguitars and elderly instruments. Any place sell a spider?

Call National directly

Are these all pretty standard, as in size. 9.5 inches?

Yes

I've seen people reference the "Hot Rod" cones. Are these made by someone other than national, and where to purchase?

No, they are made by National

I did find stew-mac selling Replogle Resonator Cone - any good?

Never tried it

Found resophonicoutfitters selling the beard legend cone. Is that comparable? The bridge on the Boxcar is ebony/maple, so I think I'm OK there.

Beard cones are fine.



One last, "loaded" question. barring me coming into a windfall of $, what other makes in the less than 1K price range make good biscuit resonators? Is there a big enough difference in sound compared to the spi der?

Buy a used National, just wait till one appears (I've bought many for people in the $1000 range)
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Old 03-09-2017, 08:19 AM
roylor4 roylor4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Esposito View Post
Thanks guys.

Not a whole lot of info on resonator setup and such on the internet...not like there is for guitars. I have run across the spider bridge flatting, thanks for the link! I feel pretty conformable with nut/saddle and bridge adjustment, never seen the inside of a reso though! The biscuit line did throw me for a second

While I have your ears, if I can pick your brains a little:
  • National Cone: I could have sworn I found these for sale before, but I only seem to be able to find Biscuit bridge ones for sale at nationalguitars and elderly instruments. Any place sell a spider?
  • Are these all pretty standard, as in size. 9.5 inches?
  • I've seen people reference the "Hot Rod" cones. Are these made by someone other than national, and where to purchase?
  • I did find stew-mac selling Replogle Resonator Cone - any good?
  • Found resophonicoutfitters selling the beard legend cone. Is that comparable? The bridge on the Boxcar is ebony/maple, so I think I'm OK there.

One last, "loaded" question. barring me coming into a windfall of $, what other makes in the less than 1K price range make good biscuit resonators? Is there a big enough difference in sound compared to the spider?

Thanks for all your help!


Larry
I have had my Boxcar for about 3 years or so now, and have never done any mods to it - including setup. I use it strictly in open G with Reso gauge strings.

Biscuit Resos sound different, to be sure. They are brasher and louder on the initial attack and have a LOT less sustain, as apposed to the long sustain of a spider. I had a Honeydipper for a while and it was too heavy and louder than I liked (I play with thumb and finger picks). I have tried the Alligator (the wooden body version of the HD) and wasn't real crazy about it.

Unlike Blue and some of the others, I have no real experience with nicer stuff like National.

I do know that the stuff from Michael Messer gets good feedback here. People talk about Republic too, though the comments seem to be more mixed.

As far as cheaper US imports, the Gretsch stuff is the best overall that I have played.
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  #8  
Old 03-09-2017, 11:54 AM
blue blue is offline
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Originally Posted by roylor4 View Post

Unlike Blue and some of the others, I have no real experience with nicer stuff like National.

It's often about patience. I paid $150 more for my National style N than a new republic brass model would cost. $150 isn't chump change, but it's not a whole heck of a lot to move up to a National.

And no. It wasn't mint. Along with some oxidation that won't come out, there is a spot on the back of the neck, about half the size of a dime where it rested on a latex stand. But it came with a K and K pickup installed, and it's a superb player and sounds exactly as it should.
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  #9  
Old 05-05-2017, 11:12 AM
Kitkatjoe Kitkatjoe is offline
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Default Boxcar

Larry

Learn to play it. Unless a monkey has been screwing around with it the guitar should play fine.The cone that was shipped in the guitar when it was new was very good. You should learn how to set the cone for your own listening pleasure.
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  #10  
Old 05-06-2017, 02:49 PM
frankmcr frankmcr is offline
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I have a squareneck Boxcar myself. Haven't done a thing to it, it sounds just fine to me as is (and I do know what a dobro is supposed to sound like).

However, no harm in knowing about what's going on inside the instrument. Paul Beard has a DVD on Dobro Setup and Maintenance, $33 from Elderly Instruments. I have not watched it myself, but a video on that subject from Paul Beard has to be worthwhile, I think.

https://www.elderly.com/dobro-set-up-maintenance.htm
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