Lost wire transfer - UPDATE

[Merlemantel]

Originally Posted by nootis

Just a heads up for anyone reading this thread. I wouldn’t rely solely on email communication. Call and very information like routing and account numbers verbally. I have a construction business and had been in email contact with my customer asking for payment. They always pay via ACH. When payment didn’t arrive, I finally just called them. To my surprise, the person I have always dealt with told me that I had emailed her asking her to change my wire instructions. Hackers had penetrated our Microsoft Exchange. I asked her to send me the false communication that she told me about, and after doing so, I realized the hackers were communicating with both of us. They had added an extra “l” to my email address and an extra “l” to their email in those communications (both my name and my customer has two l’s in our name). My customer had tried to do the wire per the false instructions, but inadvertently messed up the account number and it didn’t go through. My phone call was timely because it foiled the plot prior to my customer trying again. They were sending me a payment for $575k! It was an eye opening lesson to say the least.

To the OP, I’m glad Mark is working with you. Keep being persistent with WF and good luck.

I know this wasnt meant for me only. I have spoken with WF by phone multiple times. I think I need to go to the bank branch and speak face to face with someone.

[Dogma]

In Oregon the state Attorney General's office has a consumer protection wing that can be helpful and will even contact an entity and talk to them directly. Does MN have something like that? It takes time, of course, but could be much more effective than BBB.

I hate to say it but I have had nothing but terrible experience with WF except, of course, for the fact that they are always very willing to open a new account

I hope you can get this resolved soon!!

[Jwills57]

I got fed up with all the money transfer options available, when I was paying my luthier in Scotland, and also a little on guard, what with all the sophistication of the legions of cyber criminals out there. What I ended up doing was just using Western Union. I went to a local branch, handed over my final payment in cash of several thousand dollars. Clerk processed the order right in front of me, handed me all the receipts, which included a nine-digit number (I think) to text to my luthier. I did that immediately. Luthier then took this number to his local Western Union branch with his national/state i.d. and got his payment in his currency. No routing numbers, no account numbers, no passwords, nothing. It's a little more expensive, because Western Union beats you up a little on the exchange rate, but, for me, ultimately worth it for the ease and security.

[RJVB]

Just chiming in to suggest that it might help if Marc contacted his bank contact and/or payment processor so that a search can be initiated from the receiving end too. After all there are 2 sides to this process and the money could just as well have taken a wrong turn in the labyrints of the receiving end. Extra work for Marc, sure, but it's not like he doesn't stand to gain from it... (and it's not like this appears to be your fault).

It wouldn't occur to me to threaten with sueing about fraud, but a warning that you might take your business elsewhere and tell everyone you know could have a positive effect. Unless you already know they'd love to see you go

[Maryc-k]

File a complaint with the Office of the President at Well Fargo. They will have 48 hours to resolve your issue. I believe the President-CEO is still Charles Scharf. Send a letter to his attention, addressed to his office, stating implicitly that it is an Office of the Chairman Complaint. Send it with a confirmation/signature return required. Outline exactly what has transpired in detail. Generally there is one Admin in that office dedicated to fielding, assigning, and managing these complaints.

I worked in Corporate operations for decades and Office of the Chair complaints took priority. Lord, once you were handed one of these the Admin pursued you relentlessly for the next two days.

That wire is sitting in some suspense account somewhere. Did you get a confirmation number after you initiated the wire?

[justonwo]

Your best bet is to go to a branch. With a wire, once the money is gone into someone else's account, it's gone. If you accidentally sent to the wrong account, it's really not the bank's fault. If the account information you entered didn't match an actual bank account, the wire would have been rejected and returned to you. Since it was not, you have to assume that you sent to a viable account.

Usually, a wire requires that you enter the bank name and address as well as the beneficiary's name and address. This information all needs to check out to help prevent sending to the wrong account. So what happened to your wire really depends a lot of the kind of information you entered and where you went wrong. If you are convinced you entered the correct information, then you really need to take it up with the bank at branch.

The question is whether you can work with the bank to get information related to the account holder and request a return of your funds.

You have to be EXTREMELY careful when sending wires and ACHs. It is ultimately the sender's responsibility to ensure the accuracy of the banking details.

[edcmat-l1]

Lawyer up...........

I've dealt with international wire transfers many times in my business a few of them approaching 6 digits. Enough to have to report to the IRS to avoid any SARs. Once the wire is in process it's not in process for any more than a few days. If it's not done within a work week something very fishy is going on. As someone else said if something is in error it should get kicked back. If it's sent to the wrong account it would no longer be in process, they'd know it was sent to XXX account.

I'd be livid at this point.

[Merlemantel]

Originally Posted by Maryc-k

File a complaint with the Office of the President at Well Fargo. They will have 48 hours to resolve your issue. I believe the President-CEO is still Charles Scharf. Send a letter to his attention, addressed to his office, stating implicitly that it is an Office of the Chairman Complaint. Send it with a confirmation/signature return required. Outline exactly what has transpired in detail. Generally there is one Admin in that office dedicated to fielding, assigning, and managing these complaints.

I worked in Corporate operations for decades and Office of the Chair complaints took priority. Lord, once you were handed one of these the Admin pursued you relentlessly for the next two days.

That wire is sitting in some suspense account somewhere. Did you get a confirmation number after you initiated the wire?

Thank you for this info. Yes, I did get a confirmation number. You are right, that money is sitting somewhere in a bank in Canada. WF has not pursued this with enough determination and purpose. I will search for the address of the Chairman.

[Merlemantel]

Originally Posted by edcmat-l1

Lawyer up...........

I've dealt with international wire transfers many times in my business a few of them approaching 6 digits. Enough to have to report to the IRS to avoid any SARs. Once the wire is in process it's not in process for any more than a few days. If it's not done within a work week something very fishy is going on. As someone else said if something is in error it should get kicked back. If it's sent to the wrong account it would no longer be in process, they'd know it was sent to XXX account.

I'd be livid at this point.

I am not happy with WF. That is for sure.

[edcmat-l1]

Originally Posted by Merlemantel

I am not happy with WF. That is for sure.

I just went back to read your OP. If it's been a month I'd contact a lawyer, contact the OCC and file some sort of report or complaint with your local BBB. A month is totally unacceptable and if all they can tell you is it's "in process" someone is yankin your chain.

Then I'd cancel it before it does end up in the wrong account. Cancel it and tell them you want the money back in your account in 48 hours. They can make it disappear instantly they should be able to make it reappear just as fast.

I wouldn't have waited this long. They could have hand delivered a check faster than a month. It's electronic. Wire transfers don't go missing for a month. Almost seems like there's more to the story. Not accusing anyone of anything, I just have done plenty of them and never waited more than a couple days.

[Racerbob]

This sort of stalling and buck passing is why I left WF a fews years ago after 35 years. Once they joined together with an eastern bank it has been one problem after another. They have been involved in several scandals recently.

When the dust settles run, don't walk, away from them.

[Merlemantel]

Originally Posted by Racerbob

This sort of stalling and buck passing is why I left WF a fews years ago after 35 years. Once they joined together with an eastern bank it has been one problem after another. They have been involved in several scandals recently.

When the dust settles run, don't walk, away from them.

Yes, I am definitely paying attention now. I've heard about the scandals, but never had any personal issues, until now. It seems they have finally kicked into gear, but we shall see.

[Merlemantel]

Originally Posted by justonwo

Your best bet is to go to a branch. With a wire, once the money is gone into someone else's account, it's gone. If you accidentally sent to the wrong account, it's really not the bank's fault. If the account information you entered didn't match an actual bank account, the wire would have been rejected and returned to you. Since it was not, you have to assume that you sent to a viable account.

Usually, a wire requires that you enter the bank name and address as well as the beneficiary's name and address. This information all needs to check out to help prevent sending to the wrong account. So what happened to your wire really depends a lot of the kind of information you entered and where you went wrong. If you are convinced you entered the correct information, then you really need to take it up with the bank at branch.

The question is whether you can work with the bank to get information related to the account holder and request a return of your funds.

You have to be EXTREMELY careful when sending wires and ACHs. It is ultimately the sender's responsibility to ensure the accuracy of the banking details.

Yes, I recognize this is all accurate. I used a form Marc provided for the Swift number, account number and name. I am confident those things were accurate.

[edcmat-l1]

I would be incredibly aggressive at this point. I'd go into my local branch and demand to see the manager and sit in his office until I know when my money is going to be returned. You don't have to throw bricks through windows at this point but I'd be highly aggressive. At some point it's criminal so maybe the local sheriff needs a phone call.

Even the "mysterious bank" would not be satisfactory right now. If it's not an error on your part, I need my money back right now.

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by Merlemantel

Well, file this under big bummer. I sent Marc Beneteau a down pymt from US to Canada by wire transfer. Used the swift # Marc provided, address, etc. The money has gone missing. Over a month. And my bank, Wells Fargo is giving me no real information, other than "in process" - I feel really disappointed, and I dont feel I can ask Marc to hold my slot. Yet, I have no idea when this money will be found, etc., or if, and I cannot afford to proceed and take the $$ as a loss. Has this happened to anyone else? (UPDATE - Buoyed by all of your replies, I tried again to move the corporate wheels. I finally spoke with someone who gave me real information. The money is sitting in a bank in Canada, with no where to go, as it was somehow misrouted there. I don't know why. Wells Fargo has sent tht Bank two requests to return the money, but they have not responded. I have names, emails, etc., for a local advocate/manager assigned to the case. I have a Fed ID. I feel optimistic for the first time that this will get resolved, but I don't know how long it will take. I know Marc is planning to start building in 2-3 months; I am hopeful I can get this resolved this week, and if I can, maybe we can go ahead with the build. Hope so.)

This is a positive development. In terms of sending the wire, it sounds like you did everything right, and Wells Fargo did what they were supposed to initially, but completely dropped the ball after the first week (recognizing that international wires may go through intermediaries, etc.). But after that point they should’ve been chasing like a rabid dog to get the wire to clear. Keep after them, and keep us posted.